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Originally Posted by MantisWorx
(Post 14466348)
9886 and short header modded straight or conical
yes INS boxes I understand exactly what you are saiying but at the end of the day its about what happens race time and on the track. we all were coming in within a lap of each other. my car was second fastest over all of the other 5 port by alot actually (picco, ison) while the modded Mito had me by a few mph. My engine is not modded at all. I would like to see this 20% loss that you mentioned earlier though, where are you getting that from? i assume your dyno right? when i say mod I mean port, polish etc etc the stupid INS box is choking the hell out of the engines...add in a 7 mm insert and your down well over 20% power........ these rules are retarded and are hurting nitro far more then they are helping....time for the racers to stand up and tell the clowns at EFFRA to go pound it in the sand.... they are just a small group of guys who are looking for a easy cash grab.....making these silly arbitrary rules all over some imaginary noise issue.... time for people to wake up and see whats really happening here ! .. And you haven't gone against one of my modified 7 ports, as one of mine fully opened up on a 9mm with no INS would eat your Ison 7mm/INS like a bon bon....complete and utter destruction..I would have at least 40% more HP then you ... milder engines don't mind being choked back as much as powerful engines do...... these rules you guys follow are crippling the performance of your cars..all over some imaginary noise issues that only exist at one or two tracks in Europe..... I owned a track for 5 years and the only complaints we got was from the PA system...never from the cars........... I am going to do everything I can to see to it that the EFFRA engine rules get put in the dumpster where they belong..or at the least only enforced at tracks where the track owner feels there is a noise issue.... other then that lets let open innovation win and not cripple any potential evolution with some arbitrary rules nobody seems to understand the purpose of...... |
Originally Posted by MantisWorx
(Post 14466348)
9886 and short header modded straight or conical
yes INS boxes I understand exactly what you are saiying but at the end of the day its about what happens race time and on the track. we all were coming in within a lap of each other. my car was second fastest over all of the other 5 port by alot actually (picco, ison) while the modded Mito had me by a few mph. My engine is not modded at all. I would like to see this 20% loss that you mentioned earlier though, where are you getting that from? i assume your dyno right? when i say mod I mean port, polish etc etc in the end these engine rules have not resulted in cheaper racing, all they have done is substantially slowed the cars down... is this what the racers want ? do you racers really like the idea of leaving all that extra power on the table because of some noise issues at a track in Europe ? |
Regarding enviroment laws, in Europe they are much stronger than on other parts of the world. Even our Zandvoort F1 track can not hold a F1 race because they would go over all sound limits for the rest of the year. Most clubs have a time window in where they can make noise
I have to agree that several ruling of the EFRA has something more of a commercial side. Approving loud exhausts is basically money in the pocket and new rules with measuring noise levels is handing the problem over to the driver. To reject all responsebillities the have scrapped the word homologation and call it now registration. The INS BOX was a product devellopped by Serpent and indeed in the 1st year it was mandatory Serpent as the only producer had sold a lot but saddly many engines did fail. The INS-BOXes have changed over the years and are for sure no reason for engine failures. If the EFRA did reject all exhausts making more noise than the 83dB standard then the EFRA had no races to run. On the other hand, the Hipex 2095 exhaust shows it can be done without damaging engines, again saddly no other manufacturer is willing to comply. But hey, beside the EFRA we now have the ENS with almost no noise rules, guess who will win the hart of the racers and actually allready has done with 160 drivers on an ENS and barely 60 drivers at a EC. Even the EC-B for this year has been canceled. (see EFRA site) |
Originally Posted by dj apolaro
(Post 14466814)
This pipe is not legal 9886......has not been for a while.
DJ Apolaro We do not run ROAR rules so it makes no difference to me, thats why i run a 9 port:D
Originally Posted by Maximo
(Post 14466848)
the stupid INS box is choking the hell out of the engines...add in a 7 mm insert and your down well over 20% power........
true but that is relative since we all run INS boxes these rules are retarded and are hurting nitro far more then they are helping....time for the racers to stand up and tell the clowns at EFFRA to go pound it in the sand.... they are just a small group of guys who are looking for a easy cash grab.....making these silly arbitrary rules all over some imaginary noise issue.... time for people to wake up and see whats really happening here ! .. AGREED! And you haven't gone against one of my modified 7 ports, as one of mine fully opened up on a 9mm with no INS would eat your Ison 7mm/INS like a bon bon....complete and utter destruction..I would have at least 40% more HP then you ... Doubt that, plus the modded 5port i am referring to is on a murnan sponsored driver, say what you want about murnan but the engine is fast. i have been building race engines my entire adult life. Plus of course your engine would be faster than a INS/7mm engine??? thats comparing apples to oranges. milder engines don't mind being choked back as much as powerful engines do...... True these rules you guys follow are crippling the performance of your cars..all over some imaginary noise issues that only exist at one or two tracks in Europe..... I owned a track for 5 years and the only complaints we got was from the PA system...never from the cars........... I am going to do everything I can to see to it that the EFFRA engine rules get put in the dumpster where they belong..or at the least only enforced at tracks where the track owner feels there is a noise issue.... other then that lets let open innovation win and not cripple any potential evolution with some arbitrary rules nobody seems to understand the purpose of......
Originally Posted by Maximo
(Post 14466878)
these engines are very sensitive to airflow restriction.....the power losses are very big from just small changes..... air filter too dense , small insert, INS box...all of it will cripple these engines and result in huge power losses....the more powerful the engine the higher the power losses...
But the scenario is relative, they all use INS boxes in the end these engine rules have not resulted in cheaper racing, all they have done is substantially slowed the cars down... is this what the racers want ? do you racers really like the idea of leaving all that extra power on the table because of some noise issues at a track in Europe ? LOL thats so true! |
Originally Posted by Roelof
(Post 14466901)
Regarding enviroment laws, in Europe they are much stronger than on other parts of the world. Even our Zandvoort F1 track can not hold a F1 race because they would go over all sound limits for the rest of the year. Most clubs have a time window in where they can make noise
I have to agree that several ruling of the EFRA has something more of a commercial side. Approving loud exhausts is basically money in the pocket and new rules with measuring noise levels is handing the problem over to the driver. To reject all responsebillities the have scrapped the word homologation and call it now registration. The INS BOX was a product devellopped by Serpent and indeed in the 1st year it was mandatory Serpent as the only producer had sold a lot but saddly many engines did fail. The INS-BOXes have changed over the years and are for sure no reason for engine failures. If the EFRA did reject all exhausts making more noise than the 83dB standard then the EFRA had no races to run. On the other hand, the Hipex 2095 exhaust shows it can be done without damaging engines, again saddly no other manufacturer is willing to comply. But hey, beside the EFRA we now have the ENS with almost no noise rules, guess who will win the hart of the racers and actually allready has done with 160 drivers on an ENS and barely 60 drivers at a EC. Even the EC-B for this year has been canceled. (see EFRA site) |
Originally Posted by MantisWorx
(Post 14466912)
We do not run ROAR rules so it makes no difference to me, thats why i run a 9 port:D
LOL thats so true! more and more your going to see my engines at the onroad tracks.... open up the intake and stop choking them back and you will see the cream rise to the top, restricting the intake with a INS is a equalizer and allowing the small dogs to run better with the bog dogs...take that off and the small dogs wont be running with the big dogs nearly as easily ! you guys are choking your engines back, substantially reducing power to slightly reduce noise when you likely didn't have a noise issue to begin with..... |
I would be more then happy to dyno test any of your engine combo's and let the results epak for themselves...7mm, 8mm, 9mm, INS box no INS box....5 port GT, 9 port doesn't matter.....thats why I built the dyno to begin with
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agreed with all maximo and roelof......chocking the engines with stupid rules makes lough and cry .....when we are talking about noise lets check some supercars and superbikes and superboats ,,lets see top fuel dragsters ,,,i mean when big money is around there are no rules ,,,,,,and more and more all these useless rules are pushing new comers to electric rc toys ,,,,i wood say fricking noise and high rpms are for men ,,,,its what i keeping us around the rc engines ,,,,there can be some rules but killing the excitement is killing the rc nitro hobby...
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I agree with you Neal, but I also have a different view that I like to share.
Here in Sweden (maybe in other countries as well) it's common to start complaining about something that has existed for a long time. Like a gun range close by that had been in use for a half century or so, and all was well until someone decided to lay out a exercising path that was going close by. They started to complain about the noise and the houses around chimed in when the petition list came, even though they had moved there knowing they might hear some noises. The individual that complaint the most was also the most frequent visitor to the gun range... :confused: This happens to our race tracks, airports etc, people are moving in and start to complain after that, so they need to shut down or move the activities that are generating noise. With this in mind, many here are protective of their hobbies and try to circumvent this by addressing issues before the petition lists comes, as then it's most of the time to late... That EFRA is regulating what IFMAR should do is something I don't understand, maybe someone has more knowledge in that department. |
I do wonder how big impact the 16% rule has on noise...
It would be an easy rule to adopt instead of what they have now, if it does anything. |
The EFRA had for 1 year the rule to use an 8mm restrictor, due many blown Picco engines the rule was scrapped after a year. The 16% rule is for 2 reasons, the anti terrorist laws making high nitro content fluids difficult to get and noise and the noise from which we have never seen any test results.
The funny thing with the EFRA is that there are no testreports at all. Not of the homologated exhausts, not of the batteries, not of the bodies etc. With all noise restrictions the EFRA did not show us the testresults of what the change will give. Even with the 30xx exhausts the only story from the EFRA was that it does not affect engines and there could be a slight power loss. In that year the engines did become hot and some exhausts weren't even giving a good power. But over 40 30xx exhausts were homologated with in a total of about 15.000 euro is earned with the homologation. The last compleete drawing of an EFRA exhaust was from the 2052, all later models are not listed in drawings and dimensions. How can a technical inspection see or test if it is the right exhaust? |
A quick look at Hipex and you realize that there is room for interpretation, four 2069 pipes and three 2034...
The new regulations regarding nitro is a pain in the b**t! I still blend my own fuel, but shipping etc is through the roof. I don't think it had much impact otherwise, as it's allowed with 30% by weight or 23% by volume, so I think all 25% fuels are allowed. |
Originally Posted by MantisWorx
(Post 14466912)
We do not run ROAR rules so it makes no difference to me, thats why i run a 9 port:D
LOL thats so true! The pipe is not a Roar rule. It is Ifmar..... http://ifmar.org/pdf/mufflers/IFMAR%...8th%202015.pdf DJ Apolaro |
If 5 ports is the max, what is to stop someone from taking a 7 or 9 port and cutting out a bridge in the sleeve to create a 5 port? Are there rules in place prohibiting this? I've heard of guys doing this. If this is happening the motor rules other than .21 cubes might as well just be tossed out....
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Originally Posted by Maximo
(Post 14466922)
INS hurts the more powerful engines more...
i dont disagree with that more and more your going to see my engines at the onroad tracks.... open up the intake and stop choking them back and you will see the cream rise to the top, restricting the intake with a INS is a equalizer and allowing the small dogs to run better with the bog dogs...take that off and the small dogs wont be running with the big dogs nearly as easily ! you guys are choking your engines back, substantially reducing power to slightly reduce noise when you likely didn't have a noise issue to begin with.....
Originally Posted by dj apolaro
(Post 14467273)
The pipe is not a Roar rule. It is Ifmar.....
http://ifmar.org/pdf/mufflers/IFMAR%...8th%202015.pdf DJ Apolaro |
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