REDS .21 Engine Discussion & Experience
 

Folks,
Just getting back into RC and building my Serpent 977. Next decision is the engine. Been a big fan of Picco for a long time (ever since the s-power ones in the 90's), what's been the experience with the M7 WCS engine? Looks like it's a picco wonderfully dialled in. May go for this or maybe the club version. Any experience with the pair?

Thanks all, looking forward to getting back into F1 of RC :-)

JBSpeed

Ok, so thinking of going for WCS M7 v1.0. It's a pre broken in edition, with what seems to be the older front bearing (can't find any other difference between the v1.0 and 2.1 unless someone knows better!). Thinking of giving it a go as my club engine and upgrading it with new front bearing and fresh rod shortly after a couple of club meets. Any reason REDS keep upping the version and modding' it? Any Intel' appreciated.

A big fan of picco motors (yep, had a few P5's in the 90's!) so guessing this will be a damn good lump.

Thanks for any comments, will keep you posted to how it runs.

I believe the bore/stroke changed also, came much closer to standard Picco specs.

They're good engines for sure!

Well took the plunge and went for the v1.0 M7 WCS as my kick off engine (the local shop here have been great helping me get set up and done a good deal so all good). I've looked at the schematics of the v1.0, 2.0 and 2.1 and with the exception of the front bearing the core engine bits have all the same part numbers, so I'll upgrade it once I've got my eye back in. Does look like bore and stroke is the same (I would have thought part numbers would have changed if this modified?). The engine was a 'broken in' version, well cleaned and oiled after so hopefully it'll be a good lump. Workmanship on the manifold and pipe looks great.

So anyone got some experience on these? Seems a bigger following off road?

Reds
 

You will be pleased with it.

Break in

Do not soften the clutch too much, if at all, motor must not lug.

With the motor preheated to 90 deg.C before starting.

Set just rich enough to not shift gear and run it as hard as you can.
Keep the temp above 80 C.

Keep running without a break and fuel every 3 minutes or so.
The motor will richen up as it settles in, just retune when it does
to just before gear shift point again and run hard.

Will prob take about 2 litres of fuel to get to race tune.

Should have a shiny band that is only between the 2 oil grooves on the piston when done.

Watch this video https://vimeo.com/90534216

Good luck.

Reds running in (after professional run in)
 

Thanks, was planning to run it in for a bit just for safety sake especially as it's been on a shelf a while!

Will give me a chance to get thumb and eye coordination straight too!!!

Will run it in week after next and I'll put up some pictures of how the engine looks after a run for interest.

Cheers all!

Thanks for the advice.
We ran it in gently for a good few tanks and it was starting to get into its stride. Very bottom ended engine thus far so have geared it up a little (25T from 24T). Would be screaming by the end of the main straight in Singapore!

So far so good then. Stripped the engine down to find a nice oil residue and everything looks perfect. So now all after run oiled and ready to race on the 27th of May!

Well, the engine ran well on race day, quick enough for sure, just needed to go down to 24T on final gear, 25T was far too high as it turned out.

Had 2 cut outs, and I'm wondering if that's due to being too rich on bottom end? It did hold its Rev's a bit off throttle before settling, and if not driven hard tended to bog down on the bottom end and smoke (and 2 cuts in the entire day).

Thoughts?

Piston looks ok, nice silver ring between oil seals. Hopefully will get more out of it next time around.

JBSpeed.

Where were the cuts, after a long straight, after a fuel stop etc?

Also, were they both in the same place?

Does look a tad rich though.

Both needles will usually be between flush to half a turn in when broken in.

JT,
Happened same place, after Long straight, possibly after I'd backed off a bit more than usual (aka screwed up the line!). It seemed to need to be driven hard to keep from getting rich, which suggests rich bottom. We were not running the engine too hard as was a hot day and it's brand new (Broken by REDS at the factory + 8 tanks on track).

The fact it was holding idle when off gas for a few seconds before settling also suggests this (just read the 'Paris' engines tuning bible, good read!).

Once I've rebuilt the car planning to take it to the track and sort out the bottom end.

Agree it's running rich, but the internals look mighty healthy. Nice piece of engineering must say.

Just to update, engine fantastic. 5 liters in now and feels like it's still got more to show. Tuned nicely for the recent event in singapore, kept its settings beautifully throughout the day despite epic temperature fluctuations as cloud appeared and disappeared!

Also no more cut outs. Found a pinprick hole in the fuel line in the end and it was a bit rich on bottom end. An experienced tuner helped out and now running perfect.

So well infact decided on the M7 WCS v3.0 as my running spare (and for when my talent justifies its use! Ha ha). Mr Rossi is working his magic, can't wait to see and test the result. If the version 1.0 is anything to go by, it'll be special!

http://www.reds-racing.com/#!m7-wcs-3/wz773

Will keep up the blog, anyone else enjoying the M7? What's the thoughts on time to change rod & bearings?

Impossible to generalise. Too many variables, such as rpms, fuel, tuning, location, maintenance etc.

Just keep an eye on the stretch of the big end and smoothness/play of the bearings.

Maintenance and cleanliness is key to good durability.

Also, service and change the air filter often, it is cheap insurance.

JT,
Thanks, and agree you can't have one rule to cover all. I was however reading the instructions (rare I know), and it mentioned to change the rod every 5 liters. I've just hit that now. I've not been running it hard as I'm still getting up to speed myself, and it gets oiled (ARO) and has new/cleaned filter after every meeting (it also gets bagged with a dehumidifier packet!). I checked for end play on the big end and there's nothing thus far so planning to run perhaps another 5 liters before changing, or until I see play of course.

So, I know this is an in-exact science question, but what is the rough estimated time between rod/bearing changes that you guys find? It'll just give me an idea of what to expect.

Ps. My M7 WCS v3.0 just arrived. Best looking engine I've seen. Can't wait to run it, maybe this weekend for the finals if my I can find the talent!

JBSpeed

You rarely need to change the bearings, unless they go bad or you rebuild with a fresh P/S. The rod, I would change it. I change the rod every gallon, you can get away with a bit more, but be careful. Think of it this way, if you change the rod its $75, if you dont change it could be a whole new motor $350+. It makes sense. And it may not have any visible "play", but the fact that you cant see it doesnt mean its not there. The rod might also be streched, and you cant tell that either. The amount of play or strech needs is very minimal from OK to blown motor.

Cheers folks,
Well I changed the rod after qualifying Saturday and broke it in Sunday pre-finals (half a tank just gentle idle and a tank gently on the track). Engine ran fine, but notably a fraction richer (should of leaned it up for the final!) even though head clearance was same at .51mm. To that point what should the head clearance be?

Will run it a little harder next time, and will get that v3.0 broken in too. Will report on that later.

Jbspeed