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Old 11-11-2013, 03:56 PM   #16
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Here are some pictures I took of the new and the old, let me know what you think, observations?

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Old 11-14-2013, 12:16 AM   #17
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no disrespect but the hand picked is a myth. i am currently talking photos of 3 hand picked engines for factory drivers and they look nothing like the engines the importers say are hand picked. i have also bought a hand picked engine from a import and it looks standard.

the factory engines have a lot more mods done for the track they are going to be raced on.

so in ending.... hand picked engines that importers sell the end user is a MYTH i believe it makes the buyer feel better
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Old 11-14-2013, 12:58 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Keeper View Post
no disrespect but the hand picked is a myth. i am currently talking photos of 3 hand picked engines for factory drivers and they look nothing like the engines the importers say are hand picked. i have also bought a hand picked engine from a import and it looks standard.

the factory engines have a lot more mods done for the track they are going to be raced on.

so in ending.... hand picked engines that importers sell the end user is a MYTH i believe it makes the buyer feel better
Hey Darryl/Peter?

Not talking mods, more to do with when is an liner and piston too tight. My thoughts are, why ruin a good engine, damaging liner, rod, crank etc just because we opted out of the "hand picked" assurance. I'd be really peeved if an engine was hand picked and too tight.

As Roelof pointed out there are options if the cheaper buy was too tight, honing etc. Do you turn pistons or hone liners?
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Old 11-14-2013, 03:02 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by blis View Post
Hey Darryl/Peter?

Not talking mods, more to do with when is an liner and piston too tight. My thoughts are, why ruin a good engine, damaging liner, rod, crank etc just because we opted out of the "hand picked" assurance. I'd be really peeved if an engine was hand picked and too tight.

As Roelof pointed out there are options if the cheaper buy was too tight, honing etc. Do you turn pistons or hone liners?
the factory engines do not require run-in. the barrel has a mirror finish.
i was not talking about mods. we are talking about hand picked parts for the engines and the fact there is 2 different engines people can buy.

i have had 3 "HAND PICKED" engines bought here. they where tight , 1 of them from brand new had bad bearings and was returned. the second blow up during runing in... i will never buy a engine from some that say's this motor is hand picked. Hand picked could mean someone walked over to the shelf and picked it and then sent it to you.

this factory motor can be bought from novarossi if people take the time and look at the site where it says how to order them.
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Old 11-14-2013, 05:56 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Keeper View Post
no disrespect but the hand picked is a myth. i am currently talking photos of 3 hand picked engines for factory drivers and they look nothing like the engines the importers say are hand picked. i have also bought a hand picked engine from a import and it looks standard.

the factory engines have a lot more mods done for the track they are going to be raced on.

so in ending.... hand picked engines that importers sell the end user is a MYTH i believe it makes the buyer feel better
Let's see the photos! I would love to have a look. Or you want help resizing the photos to post let me know and I will help you.
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Old 11-14-2013, 12:36 PM   #21
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Yes, I also believe consumer engines are sold with a lot of commercial bs talk just to sell an engine. We drivers want to have a factory tuned so we do get factory tuned printed on te box and the cooling head. We want it hand picked so we will pay some more for just printing "hand picked" on the box. You want ceramic bearings, you will get 90 dollar ceramic bearings!
Even today it is impossible to sell a top engine without a silicone insert in the crankshaft because a lot of drivers do believe it is giving performance....
Finally the real performance is for the most part determed by the timings and the choice of materials, not in fancy cuts, ceramic bearings, lighter heads etc. but these are the tuned things people can see and so believe.

But there are real selected engines where the P/S set is matched giving a better result in performance.

In the attachement a sleeve of an WC team engine, photo is shot on the 2007 WC in Cordoba and was opened for maintenence. Interesting to see that there is nothing special to see and still these were one of the fastest on the track.
Attached Thumbnails
Hit and miss versus hand picked.-siriosleeve.jpg  
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Old 11-14-2013, 02:47 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roelof View Post
Yes, I also believe consumer engines are sold with a lot of commercial bs talk just to sell an engine. We drivers want to have a factory tuned so we do get factory tuned printed on te box and the cooling head. We want it hand picked so we will pay some more for just printing "hand picked" on the box. You want ceramic bearings, you will get 90 dollar ceramic bearings!
Even today it is impossible to sell a top engine without a silicone insert in the crankshaft because a lot of drivers do believe it is giving performance....
Finally the real performance is for the most part determed by the timings and the choice of materials, not in fancy cuts, ceramic bearings, lighter heads etc. but these are the tuned things people can see and so believe.

But there are real selected engines where the P/S set is matched giving a better result in performance.

In the attachement a sleeve of an WC team engine, photo is shot on the 2007 WC in Cordoba and was opened for maintenence. Interesting to see that there is nothing special to see and still these were one of the fastest on the track.

Is this sleeve from different material than ABC?
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Old 11-14-2013, 02:53 PM   #23
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Is this sleeve from different material than ABC?
ABC = Alu Brass Chrome...

NO brass I guess... There was a document somewhere defining ABC andthe other acronyms for liners.

ABC
Aluminum-Brass-Chrome. The components used in the production of non-ringed engines. These engines use an aluminum piston, and a chrome or nickel plated brass sleeve. The engine is harder to turn over and start due to the tight fit between the piston and cylinder. This tight fit is what makes the engine more efficient, and powerful. ABC engines must be run in for best performance.

ABL
Advanced Bimetallic Liner. Specialized form of ABN. Instead of a single-step, single-material plating, the ABL Plating process is based on a layered approach made possible by two OS-developed hard-nickel alloys. The first alloy is used as the bottom (bonding) layer, to fusel the top layer to the brass liner. The second alloy, developed for superior hardness, forms the top layer. Together, they create a barrier that protects the liner against excessive heat and wear.

ABN
Aluminum-Brass-Nickel. The components used in the production of non-ringed engines. These engines use an aluminum piston, and a nickel plated brass sleeve. The engine is harder to turn over and start due to the tight fit between the piston and cylinder. This tight fit is what makes the engine more efficient, and powerful. ABN engines must be run in for best performance.

There are more acronyms online. Courtesy - http://osengines.com/glossary.html
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Old 11-14-2013, 04:15 PM   #24
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It is an Aluminium sleeve. Sirio did use it in their high end onroad engines.
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Old 11-15-2013, 12:49 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roelof View Post
Yes, I also believe consumer engines are sold with a lot of commercial bs talk just to sell an engine. We drivers want to have a factory tuned so we do get factory tuned printed on te box and the cooling head. We want it hand picked so we will pay some more for just printing "hand picked" on the box. You want ceramic bearings, you will get 90 dollar ceramic bearings!
Even today it is impossible to sell a top engine without a silicone insert in the crankshaft because a lot of drivers do believe it is giving performance....
Finally the real performance is for the most part determed by the timings and the choice of materials, not in fancy cuts, ceramic bearings, lighter heads etc. but these are the tuned things people can see and so believe.

But there are real selected engines where the P/S set is matched giving a better result in performance.

In the attachement a sleeve of an WC team engine, photo is shot on the 2007 WC in Cordoba and was opened for maintenence. Interesting to see that there is nothing special to see and still these were one of the fastest on the track.
Yes I totally agree, Ive always been a believer of metalurgy and the practice of combining metals to behave in a certain way under heat and/or stress. I also believe I've never achieved good engine life by running rich, that is a relative term as some people call lean pitting the piston and button, I've only ever pushed that hard once and I still feel guilty even though it was an important A final.

I've enjoyed learning about lots of aspects of an engine I would never have thought of, metalurgy is rarely spoken, instead a tear drop or fang, an amazing placebo effect.

Roelof, what effect do you think Al over Brass would have. Or is it just about reducing overall weight?
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Old 11-15-2013, 02:08 AM   #26
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Aluminium has a better heat transfer. It can run the engine the engine at a higher performance without a higher temperature. Higher temperatures can make some materials like the aluminium piston weak. Also higer temperatures will have a negative effect on the lubrication. And yes It will save some weight as well.



This picture shows a Sirio 2003WCR engine. Unique is the sleeve with cooling fins screwed on the crankcase. It has a direct cooling. Picco as a today example is using a buttonhead with fins to make a better cooling.

Also something to read here
http://events.redrc.net/2007/10/in-t...-new-products/ (old news but still in devellopment)
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Old 11-15-2013, 07:04 PM   #27
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The AAC motors are very fast, I ran a RB a few years ago, and it was stupid fast, crazy top end, more than current top of the line engines. I also pitted for a local driver that used to be sponsored by Kyosho and he ran Sirios exclusively.
They are FAST, but very finicky. We usually warm up a ABC engine for a couple minutes before our qual, but with the AAC engine its a must to warm it up for about 5 minutes, otherwise it can go boom easily. They are very sensitive to over leaning, if you overheat it once you will loose it. Happened to my RB You need to start a main at about 190F, and it comes off the track at about 230F. Also, in my experience, they don't last long, perhaps the aluminum sleeve has more memory than the brass sleeve and it doesn't shrink down as much when it cools?
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Old 11-16-2013, 02:33 AM   #28
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The strainge thing is that Sirio has only used AAC for their top onroad engines and mostly for their .21 models. I believe today they have no AAC models anymore. AAC has just one problem, getting a chrome layer on Aluminium is a difficult proces.


In the attachement pics of an AAC sleeve with cooling fins.
Attached Thumbnails
Hit and miss versus hand picked.-dscf0126.jpg   Hit and miss versus hand picked.-dscf0127.jpg   Hit and miss versus hand picked.-dscf0128.jpg  
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Old 11-16-2013, 02:52 AM   #29
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Quote:
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It is an Aluminium sleeve. Sirio did use it in their high end onroad engines.
ahhh, the memories...
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Old 11-16-2013, 03:08 AM   #30
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ahhh, the memories...
That looks so gnarly!! Was it good?
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