R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Nitro On-Road > Onroad Nitro Engine Zone

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 10-11-2004, 09:54 PM   #1
Moderator
 
mxwrench's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Victorville, CA USA
Posts: 429
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
4 stroke engines for ROAR competition (please read!!)

As some of you may already know, I have been developing the OS FS-26S-C engine, hoping to get it competitive enough for serious racing. At the same time I have been lobbying to get ROAR to alter their rule book to allow the four stroke to compete with the two strokes.

This rule change may be possible, but I need everyone who may be interested to help. Having seen the popularity of these engines in Japan, I think this rule change would bring a fresh new aspect to racing here in the states and could be the start of something very exiting. Also it would give the racers an option of which power plants they would like to use to compete.

I am not trying to change the type of engine used for racing to four strokes exclusively, I just would like to see them included as an option, similar to what has been done in the AMA motorcross racing circuit. Allowing these engines to race together would lead to more exiting competition for all.

The response I have recieved from ROAR is this... If I can show the commitee panel that there is a significant interest for this rule change then they would consider a possible change to the current rules.

What I am asking you to do is post your comments, both good and bad regarding this proposed rule change, here for all to see and comment on. And if you would like to see this happen, please send an email voicing your opinion to the following gentlemen:

ROAR Rule commitee chairperson,
Dennis Samson- [email protected]

ROAR President,
Rick Wilson- [email protected]

Again, if you are interested in this concept, please take the time to drop a few emails. It is the only chance to have a change made. Due to the fact that many local tracks follow the ROAR rule book for their racing events, this may be a chance to have your local track allow these engines for competition in your area.

Thanks for your time.

BK
Brian Kinney
__________________
Brian Kinney
TLR Design Engineer
2016 Sponsors: Team Losi Racing, AKA Tires, Orion, Nitrotane, Horizon Hobbies, Fast RC Paint.
mxwrench is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2004, 10:28 PM   #2
Tech Master
 
Motorman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Michigan
Posts: 1,911
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

Mike or Brian sent you an email please give me a call
__________________
Just here to give the world grief.
Motorman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2004, 11:01 PM   #3
Tech Elite
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Henderson, NV
Posts: 4,148
Trader Rating: 28 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to Scott Fisher
Default

Why would I want to use a 4-stroke engine? Cheaper fuel, more longevity, lower cost? If you could explain why I would appreciate it.
__________________
| Capricorn | Ybslow | Proline-Protoform | Johnny Bravo Racing | Desoto Racing | Murnan Modified | Matrix Tires | Powermaster Fuel |
Scott Fisher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2004, 11:17 PM   #4
Tech Master
 
Motorman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Michigan
Posts: 1,911
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

It can be done but their is one major draw back that will be difficult to overcome. Engine mass. The four strokes are really heavy especially up top. This will cause significant handling issues compared to a conventional two stroke. I have actually had some of my drivers complain about the mass of the head on my engines and tell me they can actually tell the difference between heads in handling.(ie cg change) consequently we are going to a lighter smaller head on our engines.
food for thought.
__________________
Just here to give the world grief.
Motorman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2004, 11:21 PM   #5
Moderator
 
mxwrench's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Victorville, CA USA
Posts: 429
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

Scott,
You might not want to run a four stroke. That's what would be great about my proposed rule change. You would at least have a choice.

There are advantages and dissadvantages to four stroke engines. The main advantage to using a four stroke engine is the increased low end torque. An additional advantage is the increased fuel economy. The main dissadvantage is the lack of peak rpm.

The cost of these engines is much less than a current competitive .12 two stroke engines, however, after modifications to make the four stroke engines competitive, the cost will be much closer to that of the full race .12's.

As far as longevity is concerned, the four strokes have a piston ring and do not rely on the pinch fit of the piston and sleeve that the two strokes do. Therefor the four stroke engines will outlast the two strokes probably 6 to 1 if tuned right and maintained properly.

The fuel is aroud the same cost as most use the same race fuel that the two strokes do.

Again, you may not personally want to race with a four stroke, but all I am asking for, is for us as racers to have a choice of which type of power plant we want to compete with.

BK
__________________
Brian Kinney
TLR Design Engineer
2016 Sponsors: Team Losi Racing, AKA Tires, Orion, Nitrotane, Horizon Hobbies, Fast RC Paint.
mxwrench is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2004, 01:10 PM   #6
Tech Fanatic
 
kidDynomite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Chicago
Posts: 928
Default

Racing motorcycles for the past 12yrs, I've seen change in the biggest racing scenes. Before the V-twins ruled the track. They were lighter, thinner, making the bike more arrow dynamic. But the Japanese pushed the envelope with the fours and within a few years, the fours started making podium. That was in AMA, WSB, and GP. The diversity made competition more exciting. Much like us waiting to see if shaft will be better than belt. Each has their + & -.

To be honest, I'm a conservative now (married with a child and morgage), so I don't know if I'd be one to jump on the four-stroker bandwagon until I see it in competition. I see it as a good ROAR short tracker, but once it's in the game, I'm sure it will evolve.

I'm one who likes change, so I'll let them know I'm interested. Besides, it'll be nice to hear a different exhaust note on the track.
kidDynomite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2004, 09:45 PM   #7
Tech Regular
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 303
Default

Does anyone make a .12 four stroke? The only one Ive ever seen is the OS .26
RC Paperboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2004, 04:09 PM   #8
Tech Champion
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Chicago Illinois USA
Posts: 9,106
Trader Rating: 16 (100%+)
Send a message via ICQ to Solara Send a message via AIM to Solara
Default

At Kyosho Japan website, they posted a optional V1RRR equipped with a 4 stroke OS engine.........
Solara is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2004, 06:57 PM   #9
Tech Addict
 
tomkelley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Detroit, Michigan USA
Posts: 592
Default Re: 4 stroke engines for ROAR competition (please read!!)

Quote:
Originally posted by mxwrench
And if you would like to see this happen, please send an email voicing your opinion to the following gentlemen:

ROAR Rule commitee chairperson,
Dennis Samson- [email protected]

ROAR President,
Rick Wilson- [email protected]

Again, if you are interested in this concept, please take the time to drop a few emails.

BK
Brian Kinney

It wouldn't hurt to list your ROAR number with the email. Good luck Brian. I can understand the dilema right now, ROAR is willing to work with us, its just a matter of popularity, and not enough demonstrated uses yet. How about a special 4 stroke demonstration event at a regional or national level? I'm sure ROAR wouldn't mind allowing for a provisional class for 4 strokes.
__________________
Detroit Radio Control Car Club
www.drccc.org
tomkelley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2004, 07:21 PM   #10
Moderator
 
mxwrench's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Victorville, CA USA
Posts: 429
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

Tom, that is a good idea. I hope we can have demonstration races to peak interest in this type of engine. Right now I am trying to get the four cycle fitting kit for my v-one-rrr. As soon as I have the engine installed and the time to race I will definitly be racing with it! Problem is right not I am VERY busy, between building dynos and preparing for the supercross series at my day job, it seems like my days are all filled until May or so. Supercross starts in January and lasts till May. I'm pretty much gone every weekend until then. Maybe my quest will have to wait.

BK
__________________
Brian Kinney
TLR Design Engineer
2016 Sponsors: Team Losi Racing, AKA Tires, Orion, Nitrotane, Horizon Hobbies, Fast RC Paint.
mxwrench is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2004, 09:36 PM   #11
Tech Addict
 
tomkelley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Detroit, Michigan USA
Posts: 592
Default

I found the info on kyosho page for the 4 stroke v1rrr. Anyone got bigger photos?

http://www.kyosho.co.jp/web/products.../4cycle-j.html
__________________
Detroit Radio Control Car Club
www.drccc.org
tomkelley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2004, 03:10 PM   #12
Tech Regular
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Lynnwood, Wa
Posts: 297
Default

I've been running an FS26 in a Super Nitro for about a year. Just parking lot racing; no ROAR affiliation or anything. With the two speed functioning properly, it is more than competitive with the .12 and .15 two strokes. When the two speed fails to shift (an all too common occurance with the HPI finger type) it wreaks havoc upon the valvetrain, just like real cars if you miss a shift. For that reason, and the fact that Super Nitro seems to be on the way out, I have pulled the little thumper from the Super Nitro and am in the middle of installing it in an NTC3. It would be great if ROAR would allow that, too. Not to hijack the thread, but what changes do you make to "make it competitive"? I have installed a two needle rotary carb from a CVR 15 (# 10M, I think), using an FS40C intake manifold. It gives me better control over low and high speed mixture than the stock carb did. I also tried the larger exhaust pipe that O.S. advertises as increasing power, but found it actually killed low end torque coming out of corners. Anyway, maybe we should start a new thread or something, but I am curious as to what you have been able to do with your four stroke. Are there any on-line references for hop-ups on these? Aftermarket suppliers? Oh, and they are fun motors, by the way. I've lost track of how many racers and spectators stop by my pit to check it out after they have seen and heard it run. It sure adds spice to the field of screaming little two strokes.
slowpoke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2006, 05:24 PM   #13
Tech Master
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 1,705
Trader Rating: 15 (100%+)
Default

is there any news about possible rule changes? ive been out of the "game" for a while so im just trying to catch up on the latest gossip.
__________________
Kyosho Superten FW-04, O.S. 4 stroke conversion, fully optioned, shelf queen... my baby!
nitro dave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2006, 08:04 PM   #14
Tech Addict
 
crazyjr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: middle georgia
Posts: 613
Default

I think without new thinking there is stagnation, despite what Orion and the Ninja engines have done to explore new things in 2-stroke development, its still one side of a coin. After seeing how big an impact brushless have made in electrics, I would love to see 4-strokes given a fair shot at competition with 2 strokes just for something different, but to make it viable to the masses, they would need to be a better(closer to bolt in ) setup so people could run without custom components(motor mounts). If it were possible, I would run 4-strokes in my Jato, revo and hellfire.
crazyjr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2006, 08:38 PM   #15
Tech Elite
 
rcfoolz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 3,327
Trader Rating: 22 (100%+)
Send a message via Yahoo to rcfoolz
Default

I had a 4 stroke in my Tmaxx and in my Mtx-3. The torque that they produce is insane compared to the 2stoke. Less RPMs but more brute power! at the time high end wasn't there, but with the right gearing, I am sure it would become popular, but there needs to be drive line developed to run such gearing for it to be a competitive. It also sound cool too!
__________________
Am I going back racing?...Hmmm.. Not anytime soon... But soon enough.
rcfoolz is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
TRAILER STOLEN FROM 2008 ROAR Paved Oval Nats (read) rcfoolz Oval, Larger Scales and More 12 08-11-2008 08:48 AM
LRP Sphere Competition ESC --Read skriete R/C Items: For Sale/Trade 1 04-24-2008 05:31 PM
The Tuners and Modifiers bible for 2 stroke engines TomB Australian Racing 4 04-19-2007 06:52 AM
LRP Pulsar Competition Charger - Please Read! 190mph R/C Items: For Sale/Trade 3 08-18-2006 08:46 PM
What is long stroke / short stroke engine? turboburns Electric Off-Road 18 10-03-2005 04:44 PM



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 01:08 AM.


We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net