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Old 06-12-2011, 04:58 AM   #226
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Originally Posted by GREGORY! View Post
and he answer to you that it will be better if you measure it with a peace of solder.to take the real head clearance.
i understand, but when i buy a product and the paper it comes with shows one thing and i have another i like to know what it is really supposed to come with or does picco just throu in any different amount of shims for each motor, when u get an instruction book with a product i expect it to be right, thats what im asking... i mean does anyone in here have the same motor if so can u just answer what amount of shims yours came with thats it thanks...
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Old 06-12-2011, 05:40 AM   #227
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You can think of many things like tolerances, a change in production configuration up to just a safer start (as in the early days Novarossi did come with an extra shim for brake-in).

I am not a fan of just counting shims, it does not show the real head clearance. I can only say that a 0.5 real clearance is standard and 0.6 can sometimes be better (high RPM tracks)
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Old 06-12-2011, 05:54 AM   #228
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You can think of many things like tolerances, a change in production configuration up to just a safer start (as in the early days Novarossi did come with an extra shim for brake-in).

I am not a fan of just counting shims, it does not show the real head clearance. I can only say that a 0.5 real clearance is standard and 0.6 can sometimes be better (high RPM tracks)
lol roelof, do u have this motor? i sorry i will ask again i dont care what the clearance is, i am just trying to see if all of us with this motor when we opened it from the box did we all get 3 shims or do u have 4 shims and i got 3, my motor has 3 shims in it adding up to .4 i just want to know if we all have the same thing.. even if they added a head shim for break in they should state that in the book. on the product sheet it comes with it show 2 shims in the motor a .2 and a .1 im just seeing if all our motors are the same..
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Old 06-12-2011, 07:15 AM   #229
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Ralph, I was told by Alberto a month ago that engines come with .4mm-.5mm shims. Total head clearance may vary from engine to engine but close. Not sure why manual says .3mm, but I will ask tomorrow.
I would reccommend putting .6 shims for break/run in. I heard Uriah modified your motor?
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Old 06-12-2011, 07:18 AM   #230
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I have worked on 2 last week, there were some problems blowing plugs and both were stock configured to 0.5 as a picco teamdriver stated it must be.
An extra shim and some re-tuning did solve the problem and the engine did sound much better.
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Old 06-12-2011, 07:55 AM   #231
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Ralph, I was told by Alberto a month ago that engines come with .4mm-.5mm shims. Total head clearance may vary from engine to engine but close. Not sure why manual says .3mm, but I will ask tomorrow.
I would reccommend putting .6 shims for break/run in. I heard Uriah modified your motor?
yes he did.. i am just asking i never ran a picco so like the novarossi it comes with the exploded view, nova shows the exact shims and size for each different shim with the part number, so when i was looking at the picco exploded view and checking the shims i had it did not match up, if it was a newbee looking at the parts list one might say oh my motor has one too many shims must of been a factory error and remove it and wind up blowing a motor (thats what i would do and say now it be faster!!!! lol ) so was just trying to clear it up thanks for the response!!
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Old 06-12-2011, 10:31 AM   #232
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Originally Posted by ralphierace13 View Post
yes he did.. i am just asking i never ran a picco so like the novarossi it comes with the exploded view, nova shows the exact shims and size for each different shim with the part number, so when i was looking at the picco exploded view and checking the shims i had it did not match up, if it was a newbee looking at the parts list one might say oh my motor has one too many shims must of been a factory error and remove it and wind up blowing a motor (thats what i would do and say now it be faster!!!! lol ) so was just trying to clear it up thanks for the response!!
Honestly, I don't give a dang about how the engines are delivered.
I have 3 of the Torques and my routine was, as with every engine, to open it check for dirt and measure head clearance by either mesasuring or using the solder method.
I adjusted them all to a actual head clearance of 0.5 mm. The I added 0.1 mm for break in which I took out afterwards.

You have to consider, that these are not mass products.
Picco as well as NR are relatively small companies with employees that could have had a hang over Monday when the assembled your engine.

On the other hand, you can be sure that those engines are not all the same. There are production tolerances.

It takes a few minutes and then you can be sure what you actual head clearance is.
Just my 2 cents.
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Old 06-12-2011, 05:04 PM   #233
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Honestly, I don't give a dang about how the engines are delivered.
I have 3 of the Torques and my routine was, as with every engine, to open it check for dirt and measure head clearance by either mesasuring or using the solder method.
I adjusted them all to a actual head clearance of 0.5 mm. The I added 0.1 mm for break in which I took out afterwards.

You have to consider, that these are not mass products.
Picco as well as NR are relatively small companies with employees that could have had a hang over Monday when the assembled your engine.

On the other hand, you can be sure that those engines are not all the same. There are production tolerances.

It takes a few minutes and then you can be sure what you actual head clearance is.
Just my 2 cents.
sorry u feel that way stefan, well i care about the way my motor comes to me from the factory and that all the specs are in line like there papers say they should be, i would like to think that u care about how u spend your hard earned dollars when making an investment like this into a product, i would not like to think that i just gave 500 bucks to some hung over lazy retard that dont sit well with me. i guess u never owned a small
company well as a smaller company looking to gain market share against someone like nova who does mass produce there products u want to make sure that everything u put out is perfect so u can gain market share my quilty control and support would b second to none, cause if i like this motor i going to buy more and im going to recommend it to others and thats how bizz is done... just my 2 cents...
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Old 06-12-2011, 09:20 PM   #234
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Ralphie has a point. The exploded view does show .3 mm of shims. When I put a novarossi together I look at the exploded just to make sure I'm close to stock clearance, what ever it is. This is just constructive criticism, put the same amount of shims in the respective engine. For certain a nova .12 will have a .3mm shim in it.

I have 2 IDMs, a .12 and .21. Manual states to run 10% remove .1mm shim. Stock shims is good for 20-25%. 30 or more add .1mm. My 12 came with .4mm, my 21 came with .3mm. I removed .1 and tried 16% in my .12 and I got some detonation and it ran hot with no performance. Put it back to .4 and it ran fine and temps went back to normal. I think Picco has a chance to really change the market but they need work on they're QC and be more specific with the manual. And add the base needle settings to the book to. Yeah it was set at the factory but what if I fuk'd the needles up? Where the hell do I start from?

Just saying
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Old 06-13-2011, 03:32 AM   #235
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This is confusing me:

Quote:
Originally Posted by KevcoRacing View Post
I heard Uriah modified your motor?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralphierace13 View Post
yes he did..
At this moment there is no blame to the factory but Uriah, he is the one who has opened the engine. Could it be he has used new shims with a different size or did he raise the sleeve and had to compensate the headclearance with taking out some headshims?

Be wise and messure the real headclearance if you want to be sure.
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Old 06-13-2011, 03:41 AM   #236
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Originally Posted by quietstorm76 View Post
Ralphie has a point. The exploded view does show .3 mm of shims. When I put a novarossi together I look at the exploded just to make sure I'm close to stock clearance, what ever it is. This is just constructive criticism, put the same amount of shims in the respective engine. For certain a nova .12 will have a .3mm shim in it.

I have 2 IDMs, a .12 and .21. Manual states to run 10% remove .1mm shim. Stock shims is good for 20-25%. 30 or more add .1mm. My 12 came with .4mm, my 21 came with .3mm. I removed .1 and tried 16% in my .12 and I got some detonation and it ran hot with no performance. Put it back to .4 and it ran fine and temps went back to normal. I think Picco has a chance to really change the market but they need work on they're QC and be more specific with the manual. And add the base needle settings to the book to. Yeah it was set at the factory but what if I fuk'd the needles up? Where the hell do I start from?

Just saying
yes the base needle settings should b put also. now i dont know cause mine is modifided but the book says our engine only requires minor adjustment from factory setting, well im allready 2 full turns in on the low end, thats not minor to me, see i can tune a motor but when u read something from the factory u have that stuck in your head minor adjustment, then i start thinking is something wrong with my carb... maybe its just me!!!
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Old 06-13-2011, 04:06 AM   #237
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@Roelof,

is sounds like the Torque engines like small head gaps. With Novarossi engines you canít get so slow, can you? In my 35+21 engines I got pre-detonitation with 0.6mm, plugs 7 and 25% Nitro (@400m elevation).
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Old 06-13-2011, 05:00 AM   #238
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The gap is only needed to take care of the play and flex in the whole system but you want to have it as small as possible.
With this self ignition engines the volume of the combustion chamber is determing the the left over space for the gap (or otherwise, the needed gap is determing the volume for the chamber)

I have seen newer models of the Novarossi chambers giving a factory head clearance of 0.55mm and it is possible to take off 0.1mm. These chambers are a bit deeper.
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Old 06-13-2011, 05:13 AM   #239
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quietstorm76 View Post
Ralphie has a point. The exploded view does show .3 mm of shims. When I put a novarossi together I look at the exploded just to make sure I'm close to stock clearance, what ever it is. This is just constructive criticism, put the same amount of shims in the respective engine. For certain a nova .12 will have a .3mm shim in it.

I have 2 IDMs, a .12 and .21. Manual states to run 10% remove .1mm shim. Stock shims is good for 20-25%. 30 or more add .1mm. My 12 came with .4mm, my 21 came with .3mm. I removed .1 and tried 16% in my .12 and I got some detonation and it ran hot with no performance. Put it back to .4 and it ran fine and temps went back to normal. I think Picco has a chance to really change the market but they need work on they're QC and be more specific with the manual. And add the base needle settings to the book to. Yeah it was set at the factory but what if I fuk'd the needles up? Where the hell do I start from?

Just saying
The picco torque is the first picco engine I've ever purchased and I'm very happy with it. The instructions are very basic and user friendly. If the manual states .3 and you have .4 or .5, I don't see how an extra shim (.1) will hurt the motor. If it was less then I would understand. As for setting I always start out rich and go from there. Different environments dictate different settings. All manufacturer give there users the basic settings to start with, it is up to the user with knowledge and experience to take the product to the next level and utilize its full potential.
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Old 06-13-2011, 05:16 AM   #240
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This is confusing me:





At this moment there is no blame to the factory but Uriah, he is the one who has opened the engine. Could it be he has used new shims with a different size or did he raise the sleeve and had to compensate the headclearance with taking out some headshims?

Be wise and messure the real headclearance if you want to be sure.
no i checked with uriah and it comes with .4 shims, also did u see the post yesterday kevin the importer confirmed it comes from the factory with .4 shims and he will look into it today why the papers say .3, i was just checking. my motor is running perfect, i really dont touch my shims on my motors i like to kind of run on the lean side so i always leave them alone, i do play with the sleeve shims to advance timing. roelof u said u have this motor? right so what does your paper say u have answered every which way but the ? does your paper say .3 and what did u have in your motor? simple, im sorry i started this thread this was not a gap ? or how it runs with what gap or plugs or fuel it was just a basic ? i asked others with this motor how many shims did your motor come with thats all i needed to know thank lol
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