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Old 03-02-2008, 12:58 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by olev View Post
All this "no timing change, no power gain" makes me wonder why the heck the factories make racing motors with wrong timing in the first place
There are several reasons to think of
- It gives room to bring out a more expensive tuned version
- it gives a teamdriver more advantage over a private driver who buys his engines in a shop.
- Mass production means tolerances and could a tiny slower spec give 100 same performing engines out of 100.

And a lot of engine buyers are fooled with the thinking that more ports is faster. An engine from the same factory with less ports is made slower so they can sell the 9-port engine as the fastest option for a higher price.
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Old 03-02-2008, 05:05 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Roelof View Post
There are several reasons to think of
- It gives room to bring out a more expensive tuned version
- it gives a teamdriver more advantage over a private driver who buys his engines in a shop.
- Mass production means tolerances and could a tiny slower spec give 100 same performing engines out of 100.

And a lot of engine buyers are fooled with the thinking that more ports is faster. An engine from the same factory with less ports is made slower so they can sell the 9-port engine as the fastest option for a higher price.
Another reason is... that modding reduces the lifespan of engines. Look at what happened with the first mega piccos. they flew in the first version but the conrods did not last. now the new versions were changed so they were more conservative.
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Old 03-03-2008, 02:02 AM   #18
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Roelof, thanks for your answer. You're most likely right in the tolerance part, but I find it hard to believe that the factories are making engines less powerful intentionally. After all, it's not like Microsoft who can produce the crappiest software in the world and people would still buy it because they have no options. With the engines there are several companies competing, so they should be pushing it to the max or in other words "doing it right" from the factory.
Sure, there are things that have to be done manually to get full potential out of the engines, this might include small changes to timing, but again, that should be dependent on the conditions the engine will be used in, and that's something the "off the shelf" modifiers won't know about.
And you are definitely right that there are lots of false myths and contradictions around the engine technology, like the ports issue you mentioned. For an average Joe, it's all voodoo, so they are willing to pay for someone to make it better
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Old 03-03-2008, 04:56 PM   #19
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I think that there is one big factor here that was missed. The engine manufacture whoever it may be sets the crank timing and port timing so that the end consumer who buys the motor not there team drivers as was stated above, will have a good balance of engine performance as well as power. Adjusting the timing will indeed make the engine run better or worse and we all know a few degree's is way more then enough. But when the manufacture builds the engine they will build it to that specific spec for that reason not all will know how to run or set a needle with a crankshaft that has however many degree's of timing cut into the induction window. Next people would not be happy with the bottom or the top end. When you change timing it will change the motor's power curve. That is my opinion on the matter.
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Old 03-03-2008, 08:34 PM   #20
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You guys give engine manufacturers way too much credit!!
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Old 03-03-2008, 08:47 PM   #21
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Very interesting tread. I really enjoy read it.
BK, hows family? Please say hello to them from me!
Edward
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Old 03-03-2008, 08:50 PM   #22
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My modified engines have a smoother broader powerband, a significant increase in overall power, a giant increase in fuel economy and are not overly picky on pipe or tuning... The work I do is not possible or feasible for a factory to do in a production motor, my port shapes and angles are very complex and IMHO would be nearly impossible to duplicate on anything but the best CNC equipment.... And even then the indexing and programing required would be extremely costly...... I Just had 6 motors competing at the Canadian Winter Nationals..over the whole weekend we never had 1 flameout, we used up no glowplugs and consistently outperformed any stock motor in both power and mileage...I brought a stock OS Speed as a reference mark..
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Old 03-03-2008, 09:01 PM   #23
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My modified engines have a smoother broader powerband, a significant increase in overall power, a giant increase in fuel economy and are not overly picky on pipe or tuning... The work I do is not possible or feasible for a factory to do in a production motor, my port shapes and angles are very complex and IMHO would be nearly impossible to duplicate on anything but the best CNC equipment.... And even then the indexing and programing required would be extremely costly...... I Just had 6 motors competing at the Canadian Winter Nationals..over the whole weekend we never had 1 flameout, we used up no glowplugs and consistently outperformed any stock motor in both power and mileage...I brought a stock OS Speed as a reference mark..

I'm impressed that your modified engines "consistently outperformed any stock motor in both power and mileage" sounds like a great selling point.
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Old 03-03-2008, 09:08 PM   #24
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I'm impressed that your modified engines "consistently outperformed any stock motor in both power and mileage" sounds like a great selling point.

unfortunately the reality is I cannot afford to sell my motors... The time it requires to reshape the factory ports goes way beyond what I could reasonably charge for modifying a motor....So as it stands right now I only do a limited number of engines as my time permits...
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Old 03-03-2008, 11:37 PM   #25
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Very interesting tread. I really enjoy read it.
BK, hows family? Please say hello to them from me!
Edward
Edward, things are finally turning around for me. Family is doing great.

Finally got my position at Aeronautical Systems. Started working 2 weeks ago. Get this...Propulsion design engineer!! Working VERY heavy with Pro Engineer CAD software.

How are you and your family?

We need to chat and catch up. Perhaps this weekend?

Talk to you soon,

BK
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Old 03-05-2008, 12:39 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by mxwrench View Post
Edward, things are finally turning around for me. Family is doing great.

Finally got my position at Aeronautical Systems. Started working 2 weeks ago. Get this...Propulsion design engineer!! Working VERY heavy with Pro Engineer CAD software.

How are you and your family?

We need to chat and catch up. Perhaps this weekend?

Talk to you soon,

BK
Hey BK, I am really happy for you! Finaly your dream come through!

Hate ProE, every time I have to convert ProE files having nightmare fix them. CATIA ang UGS way easier to deal with.
Say hello to Karen and kiss Pumkin for me please.
Spoke with Leo couple of minutes ago-he is good, having good time overseas. I miss him a lot. He should be back on beggining of June, I might go there week before he is leaving and will come back with him (if get vacation).
Edward
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Last edited by EdwardN; 03-05-2008 at 07:33 AM.
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Old 03-05-2008, 12:50 AM   #27
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Hey BK, I am really happy for you! Finaly your dream come through!
Hey, it seems like everybody who left ..... end up working for aerospace, satellite, ............ industries.
Hate ProE, every time I have to convert ProE files having nightmare fix them. CATIA ang UGS way easier to deal with.
Say hello to Karen and kiss Pumkin for me please.
Spoke with Leocouple of minuts ago-he is good having good time overseas. I miss him a lot. He should be back on beggining of June, I might go there week before he is leaving and will come back with him (if get vacation).
Edward


Long time not heard from you Edward, How things going?

rdgs
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Old 03-06-2008, 03:27 AM   #28
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The only ppl i would ever let touch my motor is BK(mxwrench) and Adam @ AB Mods as both can back their claims up and R&D using an Xdyno. BK just chooses not to.

http://www.nitrokb.com/engines/links.html
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Old 03-06-2008, 04:04 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by German Muscle View Post
The only ppl i would ever let touch my motor is BK(mxwrench) and Adam @ AB Mods as both can back their claims up and R&D using an Xdyno. BK just chooses not to.

http://www.nitrokb.com/engines/links.html
What about Murnan?
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Old 03-06-2008, 05:29 AM   #30
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I think somebody here gives themselves too much credit...
This year i have purchased modded engines from almost every big modding name and I have to say I was shocked to see how stock all these engines really were.... Not one single motor had any timing changes whatsoever, not even to the crank rotor timing....
I know that Murnan does and JBmods does..... how could you make a statement like that.

As for the origination of the post...the person wanted to know the mods that are done....

I don't think many modders will let you know about all the mods that they do... Most have learned from trial and error, at the expense of making some expensive paper weights.
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