R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Nitro On-Road > Onroad Nitro Engine Zone

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 04-24-2008, 03:13 PM   #106
Tech Elite
 
stefan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Bavaria, Germany
Posts: 3,273
Send a message via AIM to stefan
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximo View Post
Raising the liner does increase timing...but it raises the boost and transfer timing much more then it lists the exhuast timing... lifting the liner may raise the boost timing lets say 10 degrees but its only going to add 2 degrees to exhaust, which is going to affect blowdown timing ..... I guess its a cheap and easy way to add a little punch to a motor, but its not the same as actually cutting the ports manually
Sorry Maximo, but that's bull§hit.

When you raise the liner ALL port timings are increased the same, because they are all linear.

0.1mm under the sleeve will increase the timing of all port by approx. 1.45 degrees.
stefan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2008, 03:17 PM   #107
Tech Champion
 
Maximo's Avatar
R/C Tech Elite Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 7,900
Trader Rating: 11 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by stefan View Post
Sorry Maximo, but that's bull§hit.

When you raise the liner ALL port timings are increased the same, because they are all linear.

0.1mm under the sleeve will increase the timing of all port by approx. 1.45 degrees.

Careful of what you say Big Shooter....!!!! .1 mm does not increase timing equaly FYI..it takes more to raise the exhaust 5 degrees then it does to raise the transfers and boost !

for example on a Go 21 7 port it takes .69 mm to add 10 degrees to exhaust, whereas it takes only .54 mm to add 10 degrees to transfer.......
Maximo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2008, 03:23 PM   #108
Tech Elite
 
stefan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Bavaria, Germany
Posts: 3,273
Send a message via AIM to stefan
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximo View Post
Careful of what you say Big Shooter....!!!! .1 mm does not increase timing equaly FYI..it takes much more to raise the exhaust 5 degrees then it does to raise the transfers and boost !
Sorry small shooter, wrong again.

It takes a certain angle of the crank to move your piston a certain way and this is the same angle for all ports, period.

Why don't you just try it and come back with your results?
stefan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2008, 04:33 PM   #109
Tech Champion
 
Maximo's Avatar
R/C Tech Elite Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 7,900
Trader Rating: 11 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by stefan View Post
Sorry small shooter, wrong again.

It takes a certain angle of the crank to move your piston a certain way and this is the same angle for all ports, period.

Why don't you just try it and come back with your results?
I have timing software, these results are checked and confirmed.... moving the sleeve up does not add equal timing across all the ports, the further the spread between stock intake and exhaust timings the more dramatic the differences will be.....When I re-time motors I must always cut more on exhaust to get 10 degrees then I have to on intake ports...I do this every day of the week and I do have good timing software....Maybe if you check it yourself on your own software you will see what I mean....and if you dont own software Edwards site has mini timing program you can use....... so go see for yourself before you start insulting me !
Maximo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2008, 12:43 AM   #110
Tech Elite
 
stefan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Bavaria, Germany
Posts: 3,273
Send a message via AIM to stefan
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximo View Post
I have timing software, these results are checked and confirmed.... moving the sleeve up does not add equal timing across all the ports, the further the spread between stock intake and exhaust timings the more dramatic the differences will be.....When I re-time motors I must always cut more on exhaust to get 10 degrees then I have to on intake ports...I do this every day of the week and I do have good timing software....Maybe if you check it yourself on your own software you will see what I mean....and if you dont own software Edwards site has mini timing program you can use....... so go see for yourself before you start insulting me !
Maybe Edward or MXwrench will come here and talk some sense into you.

I don't use timing software, I use a timing wheel and when I put shims under my sleeves, all ports change by the same amount.
If you had a basic understanding of physics and engines in particular, you would not spread crap like this.

Btw, here is a quote from Edward from May 2006 on this board:
"The easiest way to get more power you will need to alter induction timings to the following 35 to open ABDC and 62 to close ATDC, then alter exhaust and transfer timing by adding-6-7 degree to total ##. Esiest way is to add shims under the sleeve. Here is general rull-0.1 mm shimming under the sleeve add about 1.45 degree to transfer and exhaust timings"

But I am sure we are all stupid and you got it right!!
stefan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2008, 02:35 AM   #111
M7H
Tech Elite
 
M7H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 2,196
Default

Stefan, just 1 tiny little thing to think about.

Let suppose the piston is at BDC, rotating the crank back and forward for... lets say 10° will give the piston a certain movement, but if you put the piston in the middle between BDC and TDC, this 10° rotation of the crank will give the piston a bigger movement.
So, rotation of the crank and piston movement are NOT lineair to each other......

Quote:
Originally Posted by stefan View Post
It takes a certain angle of the crank to move your piston a certain way and this is the same angle for all ports, period.
If all ports were on the same height... but the exhaust is higher then the intake....
__________________
Serpent
M7H is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2008, 02:39 AM   #112
Tech Regular
 
RayJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 445
Default Shimming Liner

I have to check this on my own, but what Maximo says makes sense to me if I think of the length of piston travel versus crank rotation. Raising the liner does raise the liner equally on the exhaust and intake ports, but the intake and exhaust ports close at different times during piston. The piston travel is not linear in relation to the different points of crank rotation. When the piston reaches top dead center, the crank has to turn alot more degrees to move the piston in comparison to the beginning of the stroke. If all three intake ports and the exhaust port were located on the exact same location on the sleeve the timing changes would be equal. I haven't verified this yet, but it's another way of looking at it.
RayJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2008, 02:41 AM   #113
Tech Regular
 
RayJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 445
Default

LOL......M7H beat me to the explanation.
RayJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2008, 02:43 AM   #114
M7H
Tech Elite
 
M7H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 2,196
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RayJ View Post
LOL......M7H beat me to the explanation.
__________________
Serpent
M7H is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2008, 07:19 AM   #115
Tech Champion
 
Maximo's Avatar
R/C Tech Elite Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 7,900
Trader Rating: 11 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by stefan View Post
Maybe Edward or MXwrench will come here and talk some sense into you.

I don't use timing software, I use a timing wheel and when I put shims under my sleeves, all ports change by the same amount.
If you had a basic understanding of physics and engines in particular, you would not spread crap like this.

Btw, here is a quote from Edward from May 2006 on this board:
"The easiest way to get more power you will need to alter induction timings to the following 35 to open ABDC and 62 to close ATDC, then alter exhaust and transfer timing by adding-6-7 degree to total ##. Esiest way is to add shims under the sleeve. Here is general rull-0.1 mm shimming under the sleeve add about 1.45 degree to transfer and exhaust timings"

But I am sure we are all stupid and you got it right!!

dude your talking way over your head...shut up now before you make even more of an ass of yourself....
Maximo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2008, 07:23 AM   #116
Tech Champion
 
Maximo's Avatar
R/C Tech Elite Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 7,900
Trader Rating: 11 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RayJ View Post
I have to check this on my own, but what Maximo says makes sense to me if I think of the length of piston travel versus crank rotation. Raising the liner does raise the liner equally on the exhaust and intake ports, but the intake and exhaust ports close at different times during piston. The piston travel is not linear in relation to the different points of crank rotation. When the piston reaches top dead center, the crank has to turn alot more degrees to move the piston in comparison to the beginning of the stroke. If all three intake ports and the exhaust port were located on the exact same location on the sleeve the timing changes would be equal. I haven't verified this yet, but it's another way of looking at it.
This is exactly how it works.... its not rocket science and for someone who's as self proclaimed as Stefan I am surprised he doesn't understand such a simple concept.......But I guess he'd rather start shooting insults before he checks his facts.....
Maximo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2008, 11:02 AM   #117
Tech Elite
 
Riketsu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Puerto Rico
Posts: 2,514
Trader Rating: 32 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to Riketsu
Default

Come on guys... stop with the insults. This is not a forum to prove whose better than who or who knows more than who. It is to share information and experience for everyone to learn. I for one am thankful for all the information about raising port timing or lowering it because I had never heard of it outside of rctech. Maximo... can you please tell me where to get a port timing software???
__________________
eBay user id: riketsukirai
Riketsu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2008, 12:17 PM   #118
Tech Champion
 
Maximo's Avatar
R/C Tech Elite Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 7,900
Trader Rating: 11 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Riketsu View Post
Come on guys... stop with the insults. This is not a forum to prove whose better than who or who knows more than who. It is to share information and experience for everyone to learn. I for one am thankful for all the information about raising port timing or lowering it because I had never heard of it outside of rctech. Maximo... can you please tell me where to get a port timing software???
I would rather not argue as well...I would rather politely disagree then launch and all out assault... But everyone has different manners and ways to deal with situations like this.....

Anyways here is the software that I use..

http://www.prestwich.ndirect.co.uk/etp/
Maximo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2008, 12:41 PM   #119
Tech Elite
 
stefan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Bavaria, Germany
Posts: 3,273
Send a message via AIM to stefan
Default

Now, if you go to the site you posted below and click on timing charts, you have it black on white, that the relation between crank rotaion and piston movement is linear, degree by degree.
http://www.prestwich.ndirect.co.uk/techtimingchts.htm
stefan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2008, 01:51 PM   #120
Tech Champion
 
Maximo's Avatar
R/C Tech Elite Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 7,900
Trader Rating: 11 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by stefan View Post
Now, if you go to the site you posted below and click on timing charts, you have it black on white, that the relation between crank rotaion and piston movement is linear, degree by degree.
http://www.prestwich.ndirect.co.uk/techtimingchts.htm
those charts must be wrong or misinterpreted...

here is an actual engine timing from the software..this is a p3 28 with stock timing, then 1 mm added to all ports....

Maximo is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Sirio "Kanai EVO III" STI Tuned Off-Road Competition Buggy Engine slow supra R/C Items: For Sale/Trade 3 08-26-2008 12:25 PM
Brand New NovaRossi 321P "TUNED" and modified by Jim Hottinger, extra new P/S! Speed_Racer R/C Items: For Sale/Trade 2 12-30-2006 09:37 AM
"""NEW""" Collari .21 3 port buggy motor lc21-b3 goneRVing R/C Items: For Sale/Trade 7 12-20-2006 06:25 PM
""" XRAY FK05 """ excellent cond/super clean/stock evostyle R/C Items: For Sale/Trade 9 06-29-2006 10:04 PM
What effect does "Chambers" have on the performance of a Tuned Pipe? racer rich Nitro On-Road 2 08-10-2002 01:50 AM



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 05:02 AM.


We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net