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Old 04-27-2008, 10:39 AM   #136
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you got message EDWARD
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Old 04-27-2008, 02:14 PM   #137
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i have both also and there is a BIG difference in performance!!!!
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Old 04-28-2008, 08:24 PM   #138
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A good read to learn about 2-stroke theory is "TWO STROKE TUNERS HANDBOOK" by Gordon Jennings. It's not in print anymore, but you can download it and print it. This book is the bible of two-stroke engine design/modification. I guarantee you that Eduardo Picco, Mario Rossi, etc... has a copy of it and refers to it on a regular basis. The book was written in the 70's and is greatly responsible for the leaps and bounds that have been made in two-stroke technology over the past 30 years. Now of course the book was written with the assumption that you were modifying your Maico 490 (it's a motorcycle) , but the principles are the same, just on a smaller scale. For anyone wanting to broaden their understanding of how these engines work it is highly reccomended.
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Old 04-29-2008, 05:35 AM   #139
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Originally Posted by ck960 View Post
Hi Pattojnr,
can please let me know is there a timing change on the sleeve and the crankshaft over the std ones, i have the std but not the tuned yet...
is saw u have both is there a big difference in performance??
thanks
as i said ill be seeing the difference between the 2 this weekend.
as far as the engines are concerned. the ports are similar. the sleeve has been raised, as we all know by all the talk on here about the port timings
but also the crank has more of a cut in it also. it is deeper by 0.2mm but once i get back , ill be checking it all out properly. but thats the 2 major differences between the 2 engines. if the performance is that much better, then im happy with the cost of the tuned motor. its still a very cheap mill.
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Old 04-29-2008, 12:53 PM   #140
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Originally Posted by Pattojnr View Post
as i said ill be seeing the difference between the 2 this weekend.
as far as the engines are concerned. the ports are similar. the sleeve has been raised, as we all know by all the talk on here about the port timings
but also the crank has more of a cut in it also. it is deeper by 0.2mm but once i get back , ill be checking it all out properly. but thats the 2 major differences between the 2 engines. if the performance is that much better, then im happy with the cost of the tuned motor. its still a very cheap mill.
Thanks for the sharing
still have some questions if u dont mind
can pls check how much of the sleeve was raised??
any cut on the sleeve porting??
crank bore still same??
how bout the crank timing open and closing??

i'm trying to do some mod to my EVO 3
when i compare my JL EVO3 and IDM EVO3 there are quite alot of diff...
sleeve is the same IDM have some cuts,
crank bore is smaller on the IDM but timing is more on open and closing...
still havent get the idea how to measure accurately and mod this area... any one can help??
Crank case has different internal, outside looks the same
IDM back cover has no mod...
but when running this 2 beast both has almost same monsterous low end,
but the IDM has better mid to top...
tested both with 2607 and 2617 but i feel the 2617 is better power over all and better top..
thanks...
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Old 04-29-2008, 01:03 PM   #141
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The tuned version is timed just like the EVO 2 on the sleeve. But has 3 more degrees on the rotor timing. Another change is a larger bore diameter.
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Old 04-29-2008, 01:40 PM   #142
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Originally Posted by ck960 View Post
Crank case has different internal, outside looks the same
IDM back cover has no mod...
Fancy cuts inside an engine won't do a lot if you know timings is the most important factor in performance. Grooves, polishing and other certain mods without adjusting timings can make an engine smoother in a way it idles better and will pick up the revs better but that will not give real power changes.
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Old 04-29-2008, 06:33 PM   #143
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The tuned version is timed just like the EVO 2 on the sleeve. But has 3 more degrees on the rotor timing. Another change is a larger bore diameter.
thanks for the input... i dont have the EVO 2... how much is it raised?? 0.1 mm??
how do u measure this 3 more degrees on the rotor timing??
which side open or closing?
when i compare the IDM with the STD EVO3 looking from the back cover.. the IDM open earlier and close later, meaning the duration is longer from open and close... any more inputs are welcome... thanks..
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Old 04-29-2008, 06:46 PM   #144
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Fancy cuts inside an engine won't do a lot if you know timings is the most important factor in performance. Grooves, polishing and other certain mods without adjusting timings can make an engine smoother in a way it idles better and will pick up the revs better but that will not give real power changes.
i have tried cutting the sleeves, button, crank scoop and also smooth out the flows on other engines, it only feels abit smoother and not much raise power wise...
thats why this time i'm going to try changing the timing on the STD EVO 3..
i wanted to try cutting the crank like the IDM but still dont know how to measure it correctly... can u please tell me how to measure??
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Old 05-01-2008, 07:28 AM   #145
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Ah, ok, now the charts are also wrong.
Just a simple apology will do my friend... you were wrong, I was right....or are you too much of a dick to even owe up to being wrong ?
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Old 05-01-2008, 08:43 AM   #146
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Just a simple apology will do my friend... you were wrong, I was right....or are you too much of a dick to even owe up to being wrong ?
If you'd been reading all the posts correctly, you would realize, that even Edward said, that in theory there is a tiny difference between the exhaust port and the other, but that the difference is too small to measure it with the timing wheel.

You keep using your fancy program which even contradicts the real life measurements those guys have on their website, and I keep doing it my way, (as I was taught by Edward) which has produced very powerful engine for quite some time now.

As for being a dick, why don't we continue this conversation in my language? maybe it would be easier for me to be as polite as you would like....

Ciao Stronzo!
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Old 05-01-2008, 08:50 AM   #147
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If you'd been reading all the posts correctly, you would realize, that even Edward said, that in theory there is a tiny difference between the exhaust port and the other, but that the difference is too small to measure it with the timing wheel.

You keep using your fancy program which even contradicts the real life measurements those guys have on their website, and I keep doing it my way, (as I was taught by Edward) which has produced very powerful engine for quite some time now.

As for being a dick, why don't we continue this conversation in my language? maybe it would be easier for me to be as polite as you would like....

Ciao Stronzo!
a 17 degree change in boost equals a 14 degree change in exhaust.........4 degrees is pretty substantial IMHO and is exactly what I said it was right from the beginning......which you called me a bullshitter and accused me of spreading false information...
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Old 05-01-2008, 12:52 PM   #148
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a 17 degree change in boost equals a 14 degree change in exhaust.........4 degrees is pretty substantial IMHO and is exactly what I said it was right from the beginning......which you called me a bullshitter and accused me of spreading false information...
Just think about what you're saying!
First, it's 3 degree difference and not 4.
Secondly, 3 degrees duration means 1.5 degrees when the piston goes down and 1.5 degrees when it goes up.

This is a difference that you will never be able to measure correctly. The slightest play in the conrod will give you that margin of error.

Also, finding absolute BDC is so fiddly, that you will always have 1-2 degrees of deviation.

So, take your theoretical 3 degrees and live happily ever after.

I'll stick to real life measurements and experience.
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Old 05-01-2008, 05:20 PM   #149
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Originally Posted by ck960 View Post
Hi Pattojnr,
can please let me know is there a timing change on the sleeve and the crankshaft over the std ones, i have the std but not the tuned yet...
is saw u have both is there a big difference in performance??
thanks
ok I have both engines and previously owned the evo2 also, I would have to say the tuned version runs smoother and has more bottom grunt than the std evo3 and thats on 16%, also my lap times are far better than other guys running the evo3 std but then again that could be down to driving skill???I would replace my std evo3 with a tuned in a heart beat!!also there is a guy racing a $700+ novarossi 353 at my track who has won the past 3 club titles and my lap times are just as good as his, I still hold the track lap record (barely)my only complaint is the 2607 pipe manifold needs to redesigned so it does not sit out so bloody far I have lost a few races due to touching tires and the exhaust just pulls away from the outlet
cheers
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Old 05-01-2008, 07:33 PM   #150
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ok I have both engines and previously owned the evo2 also, I would have to say the tuned version runs smoother and has more bottom grunt than the std evo3 and thats on 16%, also my lap times are far better than other guys running the evo3 std but then again that could be down to driving skill???I would replace my std evo3 with a tuned in a heart beat!!also there is a guy racing a $700+ novarossi 353 at my track who has won the past 3 club titles and my lap times are just as good as his, I still hold the track lap record (barely)my only complaint is the 2607 pipe manifold needs to redesigned so it does not sit out so bloody far I have lost a few races due to touching tires and the exhaust just pulls away from the outlet
cheers
thanks for sharing PICCO really hit it big time this round i have the std EVO3 and IDM EVO3
have u tried using the IDM 2617 pipe set imo it runs stronger from low to high and great run time too

JL EVO3 TUNED is hard to find here from LHS only can get online...
but can find EDO mod EVO3 and IDM mod EVO3 here and about the same price..
are they the same???
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