R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Nitro On-Road > Onroad Nitro Engine Zone

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 01-30-2008, 02:29 AM   #31
M7H
Tech Elite
 
M7H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 2,196
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roelof View Post
Interesting question....
Who is the guy in service of Mugen behind the specs of the Ninja Engine ?
Maybe his initials are J.X.?

Like Serpent, they have an engine line according to there (Salven's) specs with Picco, and an engine line according to the specs of Fantini with Novarossi....

I don't believe Mugen doesn't have engine knowledge....
Who was the person behind the Mugen X12 engine?
M7H is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2008, 02:41 AM   #32
M7H
Tech Elite
 
M7H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 2,196
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by stefan View Post
Fact is, that you can only charge, what the market is willing to pay.
Or what the market is ABLE to pay.....

In South Africa, racers are not able to buy what we are able to buy.....

And as you've stated, with the economical problems in the states, company's like Mugen will focus more on the stronger countries....

Now is the time in the States for a company over there to start manufacture cars and engine's.....
M7H is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2008, 02:53 AM   #33
Tech Elite
 
stefan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Bavaria, Germany
Posts: 3,273
Send a message via AIM to stefan
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by M7H View Post
Maybe his initials are J.X.?

Like Serpent, they have an engine line according to there (Salven's) specs with Picco, and an engine line according to the specs of Fantini with Novarossi....

I don't believe Mugen doesn't have engine knowledge....
Who was the person behind the Mugen X12 engine?
If you want, I can send you the timing data for all current Picco based engines, which are all identical. Mega, Picco, JLR, IDM standard.......

The person behind the Mugen X12 was Cesare Rossi, as with all NR engines.

The X12 was the tuned version of the NSR12S3, which was also sold in the US as TOP TSR12S3, Jim Hottinger spec. They had 10 degrees more crank timing, like all tuned NR engines...

They are simply no real different engines coming out of places like NR or Picco, trust me.
stefan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2008, 04:07 AM   #34
M7H
Tech Elite
 
M7H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 2,196
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by stefan View Post
If you want, I can send you the timing data for all current Picco based engines, which are all identical. Mega, Picco, JLR, IDM standard.......
The Mega ZX does have a different engine case compared to the Picco EVO2 and IDM. But for the rest, I agree that they are the same....

Quote:
The person behind the Mugen X12 was Cesare Rossi, as with all NR engines.
The X12 was the tuned version of the NSR12S3, which was also sold in the US as TOP TSR12S3, Jim Hottinger spec. They had 10 degrees more crank timing, like all tuned NR engines...
I really don't know the X12, that's why I asked, it's cristal clear now....

Quote:
They are simply no real different engines coming out of places like NR or Picco, trust me.
I know, but there are these tiny little differences...
Compared to the original NR based engine, a MAX Fantini engine has a different crankshaft with more work done to the "teardrop", also JP engines are different.
M7H is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2008, 06:24 AM   #35
Tech Elite
 
ezveedub's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Fort Lauderdale, FL
Posts: 2,411
Trader Rating: 14 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to ezveedub Send a message via Yahoo to ezveedub
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by stefan View Post
First, Mugen lost more than a year of competitive racing because they handed their drivers a dud for an engine.
Second: The US is just a part of the market for Mugen. Honestly, I think Europe is the better and more important market for them at this point in time.

You guys are looking at a probably sharp dip in your economy and my 10 years living in the States taught me that when the money starts getting tight, the hobby is the first thing to suffer...

Trust me, I know about marketing and politics. The Touareg I drove in the States cost 20,000 Euros less than in Germany. Fact is, that you can only charge, what the market is willing to pay.

Same goes for RC btw.......

My view of the GRP/Ninja episode is, that they hired Mario Rossi and thought they'd get all the knowledge of NR with him.

Reality was, that obviously Mario did not have the full insight at NR, especially in regards to metallurgy and he simply didn't get it right...

Seem that the Old Man at NR is one smart cookie....

That's just what I think!
I think the same issue applies with Axe Rossi, but they had some success in the offroad market. They are also trying to cash in on the market pricing, but I think its catching up to them now. There are plenty of guys who love the GRP Ninja engines in offroad, but they apparently sucked on onroad. Some of the offroad guys are still wondering whats going on. The JX Ninja come to offroad and .12 touring first I was told.
__________________
Kyosho, Mugen Seiki, Maxy's Fuel, KO Propo
O.S., Ninja JX, Novarossi, RMV
ezveedub is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2008, 06:30 AM   #36
Tech Elite
 
ezveedub's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Fort Lauderdale, FL
Posts: 2,411
Trader Rating: 14 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to ezveedub Send a message via Yahoo to ezveedub
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by M7H View Post
The Mega ZX does have a different engine case compared to the Picco EVO2 and IDM. But for the rest, I agree that they are the same....


I really don't know the X12, that's why I asked, it's cristal clear now....


I know, but there are these tiny little differences...
Compared to the original NR based engine, a MAX Fantini engine has a different crankshaft with more work done to the "teardrop", also JP engines are different.
Yes the JP engines doe have sleeve and crank work over stock. Also, the JP engines generally all have the cranks filled. I have an offorad version of their 5 port engine (P5X based), but it used the S421B filled cranks in the JP version.
__________________
Kyosho, Mugen Seiki, Maxy's Fuel, KO Propo
O.S., Ninja JX, Novarossi, RMV
ezveedub is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2008, 03:14 AM   #37
Tech Regular
 
Gseventeen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 380
Default Bit of help

Can any body tell me the head button shim measurement for a Ninja Condo .12
engine,running 16% nitro? would be appreciated.
__________________
NEW CAR (watch this space) POWER:NOVA 353 TUNED, JP BLACK MODDED,OS SPEC11
SPONSOR= EDV ELECTRICAL!! 9699-9961
'' THE LAD COMING BACK SOON!!!!
Gseventeen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2008, 06:55 AM   #38
Tech Champion
 
Maximo's Avatar
R/C Tech Elite Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 7,900
Trader Rating: 11 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by stefan View Post
If you want, I can send you the timing data for all current Picco based engines, which are all identical. Mega, Picco, JLR, IDM standard.......

The person behind the Mugen X12 was Cesare Rossi, as with all NR engines.

The X12 was the tuned version of the NSR12S3, which was also sold in the US as TOP TSR12S3, Jim Hottinger spec. They had 10 degrees more crank timing, like all tuned NR engines...

They are simply no real different engines coming out of places like NR or Picco, trust me.
\
the offroad Hott engines do not have any added timing

Last edited by Maximo; 02-25-2008 at 08:21 AM.
Maximo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2008, 07:06 AM   #39
Tech Champion
 
Maximo's Avatar
R/C Tech Elite Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 7,900
Trader Rating: 11 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by stefan View Post
First, Mugen lost more than a year of competitive racing because they handed their drivers a dud for an engine.
Second: The US is just a part of the market for Mugen. Honestly, I think Europe is the better and more important market for them at this point in time.

You guys are looking at a probably sharp dip in your economy and my 10 years living in the States taught me that when the money starts getting tight, the hobby is the first thing to suffer...

Trust me, I know about marketing and politics. The Touareg I drove in the States cost 20,000 Euros less than in Germany. Fact is, that you can only charge, what the market is willing to pay.

Same goes for RC btw.......

My view of the GRP/Ninja episode is, that they hired Mario Rossi and thought they'd get all the knowledge of NR with him.

Reality was, that obviously Mario did not have the full insight at NR, especially in regards to metallurgy and he simply didn't get it right...

Seem that the Old Man at NR is one smart cookie....

That's just what I think!


GRP offroads rule....I cant see why its such a failure....

Last edited by Maximo; 02-25-2008 at 07:55 AM.
Maximo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2008, 06:00 PM   #40
Tech Regular
 
T. Thomas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 380
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximo View Post
GRP offroads rule....I cant see why its such a failure....
You need to keep in mind that most of the posters here in the engine threads are on-road racers. In that regard the Ninja .21 on-road motor lacked a lot of power compared to the other top dogs on the track. The .12 were ok but still lacked some power, they do run good but not for the top tier drivers.
T. Thomas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2008, 06:24 PM   #41
Tech Champion
 
Maximo's Avatar
R/C Tech Elite Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 7,900
Trader Rating: 11 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by T. Thomas View Post
You need to keep in mind that most of the posters here in the engine threads are on-road racers. In that regard the Ninja .21 on-road motor lacked a lot of power compared to the other top dogs on the track. The .12 were ok but still lacked some power, they do run good but not for the top tier drivers.

its odd they would lack power...its soo easy to get more power from any of these engines...the designers obviously must have left some power on the table for some reason or another....A few degrees of timing change in the right place can turn a motor from a chump into a champ overnight, there is no rocket science to this.... I do know that many engine manufacturers do alter and tweak engine timing as time passes...I have seen Picco change timing quite a bit on their offroad series engines as a running update........ Maybe due to metallurgy GRP kept the output limited for durability issues IDK .....But i do know the offroad GRP mills are absolute gems... I am especially fond of the GRP/Ninja 28...some timing changes to the sleeve and crank turned it into a pretty wild motor.....
Maximo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2008, 06:49 PM   #42
Tech Elite
 
ezveedub's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Fort Lauderdale, FL
Posts: 2,411
Trader Rating: 14 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to ezveedub Send a message via Yahoo to ezveedub
Default

As for the GRP engines, the .21's seem fine with the offroad series, and they signed a truck load of driver's this year. As for onroad, they seemed to lack speed. Some Mugen guys switched back to JP racing and the results show the change already.
__________________
Kyosho, Mugen Seiki, Maxy's Fuel, KO Propo
O.S., Ninja JX, Novarossi, RMV
ezveedub is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2008, 06:54 PM   #43
Tech Master
 
JetMD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Richmond VA
Posts: 1,172
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

I doubt they cared at all about durability since that was the "other" big issue with their onroad motors. Good to know their offroad motors are good. Might consider getting one for my buggy. Would never put another one in my onroad cars though.
__________________
www.vorra.org

MINO Racing
JetMD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2008, 07:59 AM   #44
Tech Elite
 
ezveedub's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Fort Lauderdale, FL
Posts: 2,411
Trader Rating: 14 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to ezveedub Send a message via Yahoo to ezveedub
Default

A friend of mine killed 3 of the onroad engines. He said the lower rod bushing would rotate and kill the oil lube to the crank pin. It would snap the rod and sometimes break the case.
__________________
Kyosho, Mugen Seiki, Maxy's Fuel, KO Propo
O.S., Ninja JX, Novarossi, RMV
ezveedub is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2008, 08:08 AM   #45
Tech Champion
 
Maximo's Avatar
R/C Tech Elite Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 7,900
Trader Rating: 11 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ezveedub View Post
A friend of mine killed 3 of the onroad engines. He said the lower rod bushing would rotate and kill the oil lube to the crank pin. It would snap the rod and sometimes break the case.

that sucks.... my buddy did collapse a Ninja 28 piston this year...Mugen warrantied it though.....I am sure GRP will get their engines dialed

Run a Ninja 28, then go run a Nova 28......... then you'll see what I see.... for Truggy the Ninja 28 is the finest engine I have ever wheeled......I wish I could comment on onroad but where i live you couldnt find 1 sq meter of smooth concrete, so no onroads for me.... At our offroad tracks the Ninja engines have been extremely popular and extremely successful... I would say they have the best overall powerbands and definitely the best fit and finish of any offroad engines....
Maximo is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
MUGEN MTX4R WITH NINJA .12 AND NINJA PIPE GeorgePravata R/C Items: For Sale/Trade 7 06-16-2008 04:15 PM
mugen ninja jx engines b-man777 Nitro Off-Road 18 05-03-2008 07:36 PM
***MUGEN MBX5R WITH NINJA .21 AND NINJA PIPE FOR SALE*** MattP R/C Items: For Sale/Trade 13 08-21-2007 03:52 PM
New Ninja engines just arrived wario69 Nitro On-Road 24 03-10-2007 02:08 PM
Ninja engines spotted dremelboy Nitro On-Road 37 03-27-2006 11:32 PM



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 11:38 PM.


We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net