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Old 05-20-2007, 06:26 AM   #1186
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I also have the new CNC button head. I'm going to tune and race the engine today. Fitting the CRF in the MTX-4 was a bit of a chore (just finished), but I got the job done. I had to shim the engine 0.5mm so that the flywheel and the clutch bell would clear the chassis. I also had to raise the tensioner to clear the engine mount tabs. This will be the first time I'm racing the CRF in the 4. Should be an interesting day.

As I side note, I finally got around to doing my 20 hour rear bearing change. Bearing came out and went back in pretty easily at about 320F. At about 284F, it still wouldn't budge. By the time I checked the temp again, it was at 320F. For those of you that have changed your rear bearing, at what temp did the bearing come out?
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Old 05-21-2007, 12:58 AM   #1187
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Why is there a plastic tie around the carb and the side stiffener? More below...



But first!

Bobby Watson: Thanks! You're tip on adjusting the LSN really helped me a lot today.

If you've been having a "run on" problem when going off-throttle (i.e. the idle doesn't come down right away or doesn't come down at all), it may be an idle screw problem, not a HSN/LSN problem like you might think. Try turning your idle screw two turns counterclockwise (or more if that doesn't work) and see if your "run on" problem doesn't go away. You should be able to see the difference on the starter box when you blip the throttle - the idle should drop immediately. You know you've gone too far if the engine loads up and dies after 15-20 seconds. If adjusting your idle screw doesn't solve your problem, it may actually be your HSN/LSN.

The engine ran great with the new inlet and button head today. I didn't really have a problem putting the filter on (I use GQ) and per the CNC button head instructions, I used 0.3mm shims. Used 30% O'Donnell fuel and a CRF 7 plug. I could have used a 6 plug for more power, but the 7 was more than fast enough today for a first time run with the new parts. I will try a 6 plug the next time I race.

Now for the plastic tie (aka "the fun part" )

I replaced the carb insulator AND the retaining screw assembly and the new carb still rotated on me. On the MTX-4, the carb's rotation positioned it right on the brake disc - and the brake disc was so unhappy about the situation, it started to grind the carb body and the spray nozzle screw head. Cool, huh?!! Imagine having a drag brake all the time! Needless to say, I was P.O! The first time it happened, I was in the middle of a qualifier. After the qualifier, I had to yank the engine (a real bitch of a task on the MTX-4) and tightened down the retaining screw. Well, that didn't help and the carb rotated again at the end of the second qualifier, but since the carb was already ground down a bit, it wasn't so bad and I was able to finish the heat.

So here I am, in between the qualifiers and the mains asking myself, "How am I going to prevent the carb from rotating? Obviously, the retaining screw is not holding the carb." That's when I came up with the idea to use the plastic tie. Certainly not the best course of action, but it prevented the carb from rotating and I did end up placing first in my Main.

Never had problems like this with the original carb. Anybody else having problems like this?
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Last edited by rmdhawaii; 05-21-2007 at 01:42 AM.
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Old 05-21-2007, 02:29 AM   #1188
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Rmdhawaii:

Indeed, I have the same problem as you during yesterday race... the carb is rotating.
I found out during qualifying and has to swap the carb from my older CRF engine for the final.
Will check the parts tonight to see what has causing the rotation, it seem like the carb body is rotating with the teflon is holding in place.

How many minutes of run time do you have for your CRF engine?
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Old 05-21-2007, 02:57 AM   #1189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RC Synergy
Rmdhawaii:

Indeed, I have the same problem as you during yesterday race... the carb is rotating.
I found out during qualifying and has to swap the carb from my older CRF engine for the final.
Will check the parts tonight to see what has causing the rotation, it seem like the carb body is rotating with the teflon is holding in place.

How many minutes of run time do you have for your CRF engine?
Run time? I make 5 minutes with no problem.
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Last edited by rmdhawaii; 05-21-2007 at 03:21 AM.
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Old 05-21-2007, 08:12 AM   #1190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmdhawaii
Why is there a plastic tie around the carb and the side stiffener? More below...



But first!

Bobby Watson: Thanks! You're tip on adjusting the LSN really helped me a lot today.

If you've been having a "run on" problem when going off-throttle (i.e. the idle doesn't come down right away or doesn't come down at all), it may be an idle screw problem, not a HSN/LSN problem like you might think. Try turning your idle screw two turns counterclockwise (or more if that doesn't work) and see if your "run on" problem doesn't go away. You should be able to see the difference on the starter box when you blip the throttle - the idle should drop immediately. You know you've gone too far if the engine loads up and dies after 15-20 seconds. If adjusting your idle screw doesn't solve your problem, it may actually be your HSN/LSN.

The engine ran great with the new inlet and button head today. I didn't really have a problem putting the filter on (I use GQ) and per the CNC button head instructions, I used 0.3mm shims. Used 30% O'Donnell fuel and a CRF 7 plug. I could have used a 6 plug for more power, but the 7 was more than fast enough today for a first time run with the new parts. I will try a 6 plug the next time I race.

Now for the plastic tie (aka "the fun part" )

I replaced the carb insulator AND the retaining screw assembly and the new carb still rotated on me. On the MTX-4, the carb's rotation positioned it right on the brake disc - and the brake disc was so unhappy about the situation, it started to grind the carb body and the spray nozzle screw head. Cool, huh?!! Imagine having a drag brake all the time! Needless to say, I was P.O! The first time it happened, I was in the middle of a qualifier. After the qualifier, I had to yank the engine (a real bitch of a task on the MTX-4) and tightened down the retaining screw. Well, that didn't help and the carb rotated again at the end of the second qualifier, but since the carb was already ground down a bit, it wasn't so bad and I was able to finish the heat.

So here I am, in between the qualifiers and the mains asking myself, "How am I going to prevent the carb from rotating? Obviously, the retaining screw is not holding the carb." That's when I came up with the idea to use the plastic tie. Certainly not the best course of action, but it prevented the carb from rotating and I did end up placing first in my Main.

Never had problems like this with the original carb. Anybody else having problems like this?
Yes sir, I had the same problem. I bought a new retaining pin, but had the same issue..
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Old 05-21-2007, 08:29 AM   #1191
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Has anyone measured how much the clutch nut should be turned in, with the Orion clutch set-up?
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Old 05-22-2007, 05:41 AM   #1192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osiris 75
Has anyone measured how much the clutch nut should be turned in, with the Orion clutch set-up?
In general I would say between 1.5 - 1.7mm with the 06 (with updated carb parts) and 1.3 - 1.5mm with the 07 engine.

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Old 05-22-2007, 06:15 AM   #1193
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@rmdhawaii

About your rotating carb, what if you tighten the carb screw a bit more?, or is this not possible anymore.....
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Old 05-22-2007, 06:31 AM   #1194
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M7H
@rmdhawaii

About your rotating carb, what if you tighten the carb screw a bit more?, or is this not possible anymore.....
Not possible. If you try to overtighten the screw, the hex head will strip first - which I've done for the second time now.

I was very conservative when tightening the screw this time around, but when it started to rotate I tightened it a bit more - and when it continued to rotate, I tightened it a bit more again. Then on the third try, the head stripped.
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Old 05-23-2007, 12:59 AM   #1195
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About the carb insulator.

The insulator is glued on to the carb body, after time the glue can crack and then the carb can move. So if you replace the insulator you have to make sure you glue it on.

The carb retainer screw must never be overtightened, it must not be locked all the way in, just a little tight. If you overtighten it you can crush the o-rings and create an air leak, it can also cause the glue to crack.
Since there is a o-ring underneath the carb in the crankcase that prevents air leaks even if the carb moves a little.

On the latest batches (06 and 07) engines we have fixed the issue, by modifying the insulator so the glue sticks better onto it.

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Old 05-23-2007, 05:17 AM   #1196
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hi nano,
i have a crf from 06 without update.
what parts must i have to update this engine, to get a good performance??

dieter
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Old 05-23-2007, 08:55 AM   #1197
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nano
About the carb insulator.

The insulator is glued on to the carb body, after time the glue can crack and then the carb can move. So if you replace the insulator you have to make sure you glue it on.

The carb retainer screw must never be overtightened, it must not be locked all the way in, just a little tight. If you overtighten it you can crush the o-rings and create an air leak, it can also cause the glue to crack.
Since there is a o-ring underneath the carb in the crankcase that prevents air leaks even if the carb moves a little.

On the latest batches (06 and 07) engines we have fixed the issue, by modifying the insulator so the glue sticks better onto it.

Nano
Hi Nano,

As always, thanks for responding to my posts.

My new insulator didn't come with any instructions or special Team Orion insulator glue - SO I DIDN'T GLUE IT.

Always keep in mind Nano, some of us are not that smart - or Italian (inside joke).

Questions, questions and more questions...

1. How do you remove the insulator without cutting it off or damaging it? I couldn't pull or pry off the last one, so I cut it off.

2. What type of glue am I suppose to use, where do I apply it and how much? Don't I have to worry about the glue being pushed toward the top of the carb when I slide the insulator on?

3. Would you recommend that I change the o-ring underneath the carb and at the top of the insulator at this time? Just want to make sure that I wasn't suppose to do that also.

Perhaps some sort of protruding dimple or notch on the insulator that fit into a recessed dimple or notch in the carb would prevent the carb from turning without having to glue it or having to worry about the glue cracking.

Another le$$oned learned. Guess I'll be calling Joe for another parts order.
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Last edited by rmdhawaii; 05-23-2007 at 09:32 AM.
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Old 05-23-2007, 09:48 AM   #1198
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Huh, you have to glue it yourself?....

Next will be you will get a piece of aluminium, and you have to cnc your liner yourself...
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Old 05-24-2007, 07:56 AM   #1199
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4racer
hi nano,
i have a crf from 06 without update.
what parts must i have to update this engine, to get a good performance??

dieter
You should get good performance anyhow The parts improve performance.

To update your engine you need the new high speed needle holder and the larger bore carburator body.

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Old 05-24-2007, 08:04 AM   #1200
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Hi Rainer,

So here we go :

1. How do you remove the insulator without cutting it off or damaging it? I couldn't pull or pry off the last one, so I cut it off.
- Yes you have to cut it off.

2. What type of glue am I suppose to use, where do I apply it and how much? Don't I have to worry about the glue being pushed toward the top of the carb when I slide the insulator on?
- An epoxy type glue should do, or even better a heat resistant glue. You need just a little on the carb body. I would stay away from cyanoacrylate glues.

3. Would you recommend that I change the o-ring underneath the carb and at the top of the insulator at this time? Just want to make sure that I wasn't suppose to do that also.
- Depends, if the o-rings look like they are damaged or not. If they are nice and rubbery then it's ok.
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