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Old 03-30-2007, 01:09 AM   #1036
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nano
As you know every precision built machinery has each of it's screws and bolts tightened with specific torques, that's why you have torque wrenches. Rc engines are not any different and using a torque wrench will always be better. If the head is not tightened evenly, the piston/liner alignement will not be optimal and you will get less performance and shorter lifetime from your engine.

If you are able to tighten the head screws with similar strenght for each of them, then you can work without the wrench. What is very important is that there is no need to tighten them a lot. Screw the screws and stop as soon as you feel resistance, eventually even unscrew half a turn and move to the next screw. Don't try to tighten them all the way in, you probably have to work on each screw 2-3 times before it's set, if you tighten one screw too far you will be out of alignement. Then for final tightening, I do it by only holding the screwdriver handle with the tip of my fingers and kind of roll the handle in my fingers (but I have pretty strong hands^^). If you grab the whole handle in your palm and tighten the screws that way, you probably are tightening the screws too hard.

Thanks! I guess I won't be going for the wrench, just the same methodical and evenly way of tightening the head screws like I have been doing for my past motors, those I always rebreak in a little bit after removing the head, just for that human error factor that might miss align the sleeve just a tiny bit.
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Old 03-31-2007, 08:27 PM   #1037
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When will the .21 onroad engine be available?
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Old 04-04-2007, 04:02 PM   #1038
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New CRF Parts shown at redrc.net:
http://www.redrc.net/2007/04/crf-engine-tuning-parts/

Nano ~ Some questions for you:

- When will these parts be available?
- Will all new CRFs come with these parts?
- Is the Venturi the 3rd version?
- Does that center portion of the new backplate spin?
- Part Numbers and and retail pricing?

Thanks!
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Old 04-05-2007, 02:12 AM   #1039
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Unhappy Engine Running-on

Hi Nano

I have registered to see if I can get some assistance with the WASP CRF 0.12. running in a RRR.

I have three motors (early editions), two pipes (EFRA 2626) two CRF clutches, tapered venturis, innumerable spare parts and bearings etc. Also two of the 2007 carby update. No one here in Melbourne (16% nitro) can get any of these motors to run at a reasonable running temperature, say 120C and so give reasonable power without severe running-on at throttle lift-off or when pitting for fuel. It is so bad that since Christmas we have been trying to sell the whole lot but no one is interested, even at 1/3 original price and most is brand new or near new!

Reading through the Forum I have noted a couple of items that strike a bell such as damaged crankpins, leaking end bells and liners that are very tight in the crankcase. I have had all these problems. Our first motor, after an hour or so running for tuning attempts and one race meeting ended up with an oval crankpin measured at 0.2mm out of round - no kidding! I found the liner very tight in the rankcase and have noted oil leaking from the end bell. These were fixed with a new "o" ring, conrod and crankshaft - but how long will the new crankshaft last? The WASP crankpin is virtually half the size of an equivalent NovaRossi so I really have a problem with the loading on these pins. Is a new design being considered?

Now to the liner. Would I be correct that the tight fit is intentional to reduce, as much as possible, the air gap that forms due to differential expansion rates between the steel liner and the aluminium crankcase? It is probable that when hot (normal operating temperature) the expansion of the crankcase is much more than the liner and this develops an air gap beween the inlet and exhaust ports which results in the incessent run-on. What do you think? Would a soloution be to use a Nikasil plated brass liner?
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Old 04-05-2007, 06:11 AM   #1040
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I ran my Murnan modified CRF at the weekend and this was the first big race I have used it. I used a No 5 plug and removed all but the 0.1mm head shims. I used 16% tornado fuel.

Another guy had the Murnan modified Wasp and another had the standard Wasp. We all found the engines to be very powerfull and very reliable. My engine gave me the most power I have had from any engine and when I check the plug was still wet and needed leaning even more!

One guy had a standard wasp and was using NO head shims and it had loads of bottom end power. We checked the head clearance and there was no pre detonation marks.

Cheers
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Old 04-05-2007, 08:22 AM   #1041
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Rmdhawai,

Most of these parts should be available in the USA, as usual call Team Orion USA if you have any problems locating the parts.

Performance upgrade parts :

ORI81357 CNC Combustion chamber
ORI81358 Big Carb inlet
ORI81359 CNC back plate
ORI88550 Double fuel inlet

Also our new 2647 pipe available in two versions :

ORI88008 ABI In-Line Pipe+Manifold (Hi-Speed)
ORI88009 ABI In-Line Pipe+Manifold (Hi-Torque)

No the backplate does not spin, it's CNC'd and the holes are there to improve cooling. The performance trick is with the cuts on the part that inserts inside the crankcase.

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Old 04-05-2007, 08:59 AM   #1042
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Chris,

I am sorry to hear that you have been having problems getting the engine to run properly.

The only part that ever had a real issue is the rear cover o-ring which could leak after a while and that has been sorted a long time ago. The updated carb is the same as the original carb but with a bigger bore carb body and high speed needle holder, this to improve bottom end and tuneabililty.

The liners aren't tight, if the liner is too tight then the piston/liner are out of alignement. That's why we give special instructions and recommend the use of a torque wrench for the button head, cooling head assembly. Some liners are a little tighter when new but after an hour or so of running they all become the same. Anyhow every liner you can insert the piston from both sides, so it can't be that tight.

Regarding the crankpin, if the engine has been run for one hour with a wrong setting (probably too lean) it could be damaged...
The theory for the crankpin is that the smaller the pin, the less friction/wear you get per round because the less distance the connecting rod is travelling around the pin. Also a smaller pin allows us to use a connecting rod that is thicker around the pin, making it less prone to failure. You may have seen there even is a small hole at the front of the pin to bring extra lubrication to the pin.

We run these engines everyday of the year, so we know what's going on, what wears out and why.

I wish I could have lived closer to you to come and help you at the track, but unfortunately I am half-way around the world.

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Old 04-05-2007, 03:04 PM   #1043
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Thanks Nano. One thing I forgot to ask - on average, how much cooler does the engine run with the new backplate?
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Old 04-05-2007, 03:54 PM   #1044
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Quote:
No one here in Melbourne (16% nitro) can get any of these motors to run at a reasonable running temperature, say 120C and so give reasonable power without severe running-on at throttle lift-off or when pitting for fuel.
I second that 100% - even had a go at tuning one of Chris's engines myself with no joy!

But in between the running-on - WOW!
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Old 04-05-2007, 05:41 PM   #1045
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Young
No one here in Melbourne (16% nitro) can get any of these motors to run at a reasonable running temperature, say 120C and so give reasonable power without severe running-on at throttle lift-off or when pitting for fuel.
It would be interesting to hear what your needle settings are, head clearance, what plug you are using and how you are tuning your engine. Also, what car and clutch parts are you using?

My CRF runs like this quite a bit - but it's because I send it out too lean to begin with. So by the time it gets up to temp (and beyond), the engine is screaming. What I am suppose to be doing, is sending it out on the richer side, so by the time it has warmed up on the track (about 3 minutes), it has leaned out to the proper tune and will also shift into 2nd. If I follow the procedure, it runs like it is suppose to and I don't have the off throttle problem.

So why am I sending it out too lean? Because I haven't figured out how to deal with the change in temp and humidity throughout the day. In the morning, the engine runs just fine. In the afternoon, things change and the engine starts running way too rich, so you hear the bog and the engine will start to load up pretty bad on the starting line. Remember, with this engine, if you hear bog, it means you're too rich, not too lean - which is opposite from what you may be used to. In any case... because there is usually no open practice after 1pm (the 3 rounds of mains have already started), I never have a chance to work on tuning the engine on the track, so I don't know how much to adjust the HSN and LSN needles before putting the car on the track - so that after it warms up, it's tuned properly. So what do I do? Send it out lean. The engine is really fast and I'm glad it can handle the temps that I run it at, but it's not a good thing. I really need to go back and start experimenting with the needle settings again.

I find the engine incredibly durable for the amount of abuse that it is taking from me. I haven't had any excessive wear (that I'm aware of) or breakage. I've run the engine up to and over 300F on many occasions and the next time I race it, it runs just fine in the mornings.

Another guy at my track has been running the CRF for quite a while now and he doesn't have the same problems that I do. His dad is super good at engine tuning, so his engine is not impacted as bad as mine is when the temps and humidy change. His dad still has to make adjustments, but I think his engine settings are pretty close to where they are suppose to be to begin with.

Anyway, this has been my experience with the engine. It may or may not be applicable in your case. I hope I've posted something that may assist you with your tuning issues.

Good luck
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Old 04-05-2007, 06:29 PM   #1046
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Default HOPE THIS HELPs

Here is how i do all my Crf,s ,first i warm the engine up until i get temp of about 198 degrees,but you hve to get the lsn ,just alittle on the rich side, then i lower my idle as low as possible,then i lean the lsn 1 mark at time then i hit the throttle wide open,then let off to see if it drops the idle,this is where you really see what the motor likes.I take my time to get my lsn where i am 100% sure i wont hve to touch the lsn at all. Now this is the time i put on the track to do my final adjustments ,First i do three or four hot laps,then i bring it in to get my first temp ,the temp i know should read between 217 to 220 when i see those temps i lean the hsn 1 mark,the do two to three more hot laps my final should be around 240 to 250 degrees.An you ask anyone that knows me my CRf,s are fast .PS the clutch ,gearing ,pipe an header also play big part it unleashing the power.
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Old 04-05-2007, 06:44 PM   #1047
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Very interesting Bobby. Do you adjust the LSN on all your engines like this or only the CRF?
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Old 04-05-2007, 07:02 PM   #1048
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Default CRF

Crf is the only engine that i do this to.
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Old 04-05-2007, 07:13 PM   #1049
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Best as I can recall, this is the first time I've seen this technique for adjusting the LSN. This might be the answer to my issues. I will definitely give it a try. Thanks!
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Old 04-05-2007, 08:25 PM   #1050
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Default HEY

Im getting ready for the Region 4 race at Kissimee,im glad the street in front of my house is as long as Kissimee straightway an i do alot testing an tuning .that helps alot ,with nobody around you can learn,an most of all listening.Just take you time with the engine an when find that sweet spot,then you,ll be like i got cha!
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