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Old 08-15-2006, 02:23 PM   #676
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Default Engine

Hey Guys,
Just wondering if this engine will fit in a NTC3, looking to setup a new car. And please recommend a pipe and clutch setup.
Thanks
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Old 08-22-2006, 07:16 PM   #677
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Default CRF Specs

Can anybody confirm if these timing figures are correct???

Induction:
Opens 15 ABDC
Closes 70 ATDC
Total induction 235

Total Transfer: 124

Total Exhaust: 172

What's the bore and stroke on this engine???


AFM
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Old 08-22-2006, 07:50 PM   #678
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afm
Can anybody confirm if these timing figures are correct???

Induction:
Opens 15 ABDC
Closes 70 ATDC
Total induction 235

Total Transfer: 124

Total Exhaust: 172

What's the bore and stroke on this engine???


AFM
I think you are off quite abit on those figures.

I got 255deg intake
10 abdc open
85 atdc closing [close deg(85)+180-open deg(10)= total intake timing]
107 transfer
163 exhaust
26.6mm rod length on centers
2.25mm transfer port height from bdc
5.05mm ex port height from bdc

Bore 13.75mm
Stroke 14.0mm

Use Palmaris deg. calulator for figuring your timing easily
www.palmarisracing.com

BK
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Old 08-22-2006, 08:04 PM   #679
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mxwrench
I think you are off quite abit on those figures.

I got 255deg intake
10 abdc open
85 atdc closing [close deg(85)+180-open deg(10)= total intake timing]
107 transfer
163 exhaust
26.6mm rod length on centers
2.25mm transfer port height from bdc
5.05mm ex port height from bdc

Bore 13.75mm
Stroke 14.0mm

Use Palmaris deg. calulator for figuring your timing easily
www.palmarisracing.com

BK
Thanks a lot BK...that is why I was asking, because somebody posted those figures somewhere and I couldn't get confirmation from him.
I will receive my first batch of engines in a couple of weeks (..finally), so I don't have them on hand to measure or test yet....
Your info saves me a lot of time.....

Thanks again

AFM
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Old 08-22-2006, 09:36 PM   #680
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afm
Thanks a lot BK...that is why I was asking, because somebody posted those figures somewhere and I couldn't get confirmation from him.
I will receive my first batch of engines in a couple of weeks (..finally), so I don't have them on hand to measure or test yet....
Your info saves me a lot of time.....

Thanks again

AFM
No problem AFM, I am always happy to help. I was working with Team Orion a little bit when they released their engine to the public, doing set ups and such, but unfortunately, their budget couldn't sustain our relationship. So now I am freelance again.

PM me and I can give you some great ideas for this engine from my past experience.

BK
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Old 08-23-2006, 12:51 AM   #681
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Bk are you coming out here for the worlds next month?
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Old 08-23-2006, 10:33 AM   #682
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hi bk,
my engine is a little different

12 deg abtc
78 deg atdc
5,5 exaust high
stroke 13.95

dieter
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Old 08-23-2006, 12:30 PM   #683
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4racer
hi bk,
my engine is a little different

12 deg abtc
78 deg atdc
5,5 exaust high
stroke 13.95

dieter
Dieter,

Yes there are manufacturing tollerances to take into account, and also the measuring technique used.

I took the dimensions off the manufacuring blueprints I received while working on the project with Team Orion.

BK
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Old 08-23-2006, 12:34 PM   #684
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slo-MTX4
Bk are you coming out here for the worlds next month?
No, unfortunately I am not going to make it to the Worlds event as previously planned. To bad too I was really looking forward to it!!

Oh well, hopefully next time.

BK
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Old 08-23-2006, 12:45 PM   #685
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hi bk,
can you send me your aktualy engine and clutch setup, please


dieter
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Old 08-23-2006, 01:41 PM   #686
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4racer
hi bk,
can you send me your aktualy engine and clutch setup, please


dieter
Dieter, Here is my current set up:

Engine:
Std CRF engine w/the following changes,
Hand modified crankshaft(my design)
Custom CNC head button(my design)
Team Orion optional carb venturi
Std carb (settings depend on track, atmospheric conditions, head clearance, pipe used, etc)(6hsn and 4 1/4lsn starting points)(Mid nozzle fully seated then backed out 1/2 turn so either the blade is parallel or perpendicular with the HSN assy)
Team Orion CRF #5 or #6 turbo plug (depending on the conditions)
Skyline VR12+ pipe and header, or Mugen 2609 pipe w/JP short conical header

Clutch:
My clutch is Kyosho RRR 3D clutch set up as follows:
Team Orion clutch flyweights w/2 set screw each
Std Grey Kyosho shoe
Team Orion square wound spring
1.55mm spring preload
0.6mm clutch air gap
16/59-60 22/55-56 gearing
Tire size depending on trank and conditions- usually 58-60

This is about all the info I can give! I hope this helps!!

BK
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Old 08-23-2006, 02:56 PM   #687
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mxwrench
Dieter, Here is my current set up:

Engine:
Std CRF engine w/the following changes,
Hand modified crankshaft(my design)
Custom CNC head button(my design)
Team Orion optional carb venturi
Std carb (settings depend on track, atmospheric conditions, head clearance, pipe used, etc)(6hsn and 4 1/4lsn starting points)(Mid nozzle fully seated then backed out 1/2 turn so either the blade is parallel or perpendicular with the HSN assy)
Team Orion CRF #5 or #6 turbo plug (depending on the conditions)
Skyline VR12+ pipe and header, or Mugen 2609 pipe w/JP short conical header

Clutch:
My clutch is Kyosho RRR 3D clutch set up as follows:
Team Orion clutch flyweights w/2 set screw each
Std Grey Kyosho shoe
Team Orion square wound spring
1.55mm spring preload
0.6mm clutch air gap
16/59-60 22/55-56 gearing
Tire size depending on trank and conditions- usually 58-60

This is about all the info I can give! I hope this helps!!

BK
What were some of the areas of the crank that you modified??? The crank is super light stock, but the portings looks very conserative... Do you believe your mod improved bottom in???


RC_Alan
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Old 08-23-2006, 03:18 PM   #688
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rc_alan
What were some of the areas of the crank that you modified??? The crank is super light stock, but the portings looks very conserative... Do you believe your mod improved bottom in???


RC_Alan
RC_Alan, I only modified the inlet closing timing, by adding material to the crankshaft and reworking the timing figures.

BK
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Old 08-23-2006, 03:33 PM   #689
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mxwrench
RC_Alan, I only modified the inlet closing timing, by adding material to the crankshaft and reworking the timing figures.

BK
Thanks for the reply... I was looking at a couple of motors... Sirio, Orion and Nova's to run in my next car... Most likely the 720... Taking care of a new born so I had to take a few months off since the Nats... From your point of view, what is the life span of the Orion CRF motor as compared to a Sirio and Novarossi based motors? Do you see any weak points/areas with the motor??? Area's that need to be watched... I know what I'm getting with a Sirio or Nova.... The Orion CRF is new territory for many racers...

RC_Alan
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Old 08-23-2006, 08:15 PM   #690
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rc_alan
Thanks for the reply... I was looking at a couple of motors... Sirio, Orion and Nova's to run in my next car... Most likely the 720... Taking care of a new born so I had to take a few months off since the Nats... From your point of view, what is the life span of the Orion CRF motor as compared to a Sirio and Novarossi based motors? Do you see any weak points/areas with the motor??? Area's that need to be watched... I know what I'm getting with a Sirio or Nova.... The Orion CRF is new territory for many racers...

RC_Alan
RC_Alan, I would say that if taken care of properly, the Team Orion CRF engine will last longer than the typical Nova based engine. Primarily because the sleeve/piston relationship doesn't incorperate a pinch for compression. And the nikasil sleeve actually lasts a long long time. However, the usual maintenance needs to be done to ensure long life. Like replacing bearings, and conrods at regular intervals, say every 10 hrs of use.

As far as areas that need to be watched, I would say that on of the most important things with this engine is to be gentle on break in. Alot of people think that because this engine doesn't have a pinch that they can run one tank through it and go full race tune right away. Unfortunately this is not so. The engine needs time to wear in other vital components such as the crankshaft/crankcase relationship or clearance, the conrod bushing, and the piston itself still needs break in time.

As for actual components that need special attention, the front bearing is a little prone to leaking and loosness after a while, but unless the LSN is snot rich, it shouldn't do much more than weep a bit when it's close to needing replacement.

I have a few CRF engines that have more than two gallons thru them and they still make close to the same HP on the dyno as they did after break in when new. (I'm talking 1.14 vs. 1.09)

All in all I think these are great engines as long as you take the time to learn how to tune them properly and set your car up to utilize the power they make. But they are even better with a few modifications done to boost the low end performance/response.

You are a local guy, I can always help you get it tuned properly if you need it!

See you at Crystal Park sometime soon.

BK
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