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Old 07-13-2006, 01:22 AM   #631
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mxwrench
M7H, I think that only serpent OEM flyweights still are attached to the pin, everyone else uses floating flyweights. Just FYI.
That's true..... so maybe my theory only goes for Serpent clutches....

Quote:
Originally Posted by afm
Centax flyweights are not attached to pins, they are guided by the pins during their expansion travel caused by centrifugal force.....
http://www.mytsn.com/publ/publ.asp?pid=11801

Quote:
But let's make it simpler..............remember the standard clutches (purely centrifugal) before the Centax that are still used on 1/8 Off Road??......well the shoes are attached at one end by pins, so in order to tune engament you either change the springs for larger diameter, thus incrementing the tension, or you cut the flyweights to make them lighter (or both) in order to get a later engament at certain rpm's...opposite holds true for early engament....
AFM
Cutting the shoe, will also result in less surfaces touching the clutchbell, therefore more slip........
Or less weight in the shoe, which also results in more slip......
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Old 07-13-2006, 06:50 AM   #632
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M7H
That's true..... so maybe my theory only goes for Serpent clutches....

Cutting the shoe, will also result in less surfaces touching the clutchbell, therefore more slip........
Or less weight in the shoe, which also results in more slip......
No, your theory is wrong......your link to Serpent's article proves my theory to be right....

Lighter (unweighted) flyweights engage later, but have a softer engagement (since more engine RPM is needed to get the same force as with heavy flyweights). By adding a weight (threaded setscrew) into the hole at the far end of the flyweight, the flyweight becomes heavier; it engages earlier and with more force.

(With heavier flyweights, you need more pre-tension force on the spring; this is one of the main reasons why it engages harder.)


Wrap-up
............expect the following:

* unweighted: later engagement, with less force
* weighted: earlier engagement, with more force


In the case of the off road clutches, you don't cut the shoes reducing the area that contacts the bell, you cut them on the inside (Dremel), and of course you do it as a last resource if you can't get a hard enough tension spring, and with experience you cut enough so as to avoid slippage.....but in the end you get same results........
unweighted: later engagement, with less force
weighted: earlier engagement, with more force

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Old 07-13-2006, 08:06 AM   #633
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Quote:
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No, your theory is wrong......your link to Serpent's article proves my theory to be right....
I knowe, but still I read a article somewhere stating the opposite (lighter shoes engage earlier.....)
But, I can't prove that it's correct, so I will not believe that theory....

Quote:
In the case of the off road clutches, you don't cut the shoes reducing the area that contacts the bell, you cut them on the inside (Dremel)
I know, I meant the same....
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Old 07-13-2006, 08:50 AM   #634
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I think , assuming clutch spring tension remains the same, lighter clutch weight will result in later engagement.

Cos Force = Mass x Accelaration = Mass x velocity square / radius.

Since reduce in mass = reduce in Force to overcome the spring tension.

And to achieve same force but with reduced mass, that means velocity has to increase.

Just my 2 cents.
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Old 07-13-2006, 08:56 AM   #635
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And also bcos spring Tension = Spring constant x displacement.
As spring compresses the tension get larger (Who doesn't know that ), thus a lighter clutch weight will have a softer engagement cos it has less force and take longer time to fully overcome the spring tension.

Just my 2 cents again.

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Old 07-13-2006, 03:39 PM   #636
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Has anyone in this thread run this motor with the skyline vr12 plus pipe and if so how was the performance.
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Old 07-13-2006, 04:53 PM   #637
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You can search right in the thread, check the top right of the post. Youll find some posts on the skyline pipe. From what Ive read and heard , it seems to work pretty well with the motor.
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Old 07-13-2006, 05:38 PM   #638
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The Vr12 + works better than any other pipe I have used with the motor.
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Old 07-16-2006, 09:00 PM   #639
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Default New WASP motor need help !!!!!!

Just got my new wasp installed into my RRR and started to break it in this weekend. I left the box settings on the motor and head shims as it came. I live in Louisville, Kentucky so the temp here has been in the 90's with high humidity. I was using the glow plug that came with the motor, a #6. I run 20% Trinity Platinum fuel with the RD Logics 6505 pipe. I couldn't get the motor to run at any lower than 230 degrees. The stock settings made the motor run very lean and I had to richen both the top and bottom to bring down the temp. Now the bottom end has a real bad bog after sitting for more than 5 seconds. After it cleans out it runs great, but no lower than 230. Any help would be appreciated !!!!!
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Old 07-16-2006, 10:07 PM   #640
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fastrcracer
Just got my new wasp installed into my RRR and started to break it in this weekend. I left the box settings on the motor and head shims as it came. I live in Louisville, Kentucky so the temp here has been in the 90's with high humidity. I was using the glow plug that came with the motor, a #6. I run 20% Trinity Platinum fuel with the RD Logics 6505 pipe. I couldn't get the motor to run at any lower than 230 degrees. The stock settings made the motor run very lean and I had to richen both the top and bottom to bring down the temp. Now the bottom end has a real bad bog after sitting for more than 5 seconds. After it cleans out it runs great, but no lower than 230. Any help would be appreciated !!!!!
Sounds to me as though the motor is overgeared. Read back through this thread as rick howart and josh cyrul give their actual gearing numbers for the RRR.
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Old 07-16-2006, 10:14 PM   #641
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After spending 4 hours last thursday trying different clutch and pipe combos I figured I hadn't learnt too much.

Racing yesterday at round 9 of the West Australian championship went fairly well. My G4S hooked up and the wasp delivered the goods to reset the 5 min qualifying record. Hopefully more improvements can be made in my setup, but so far so good with the CRF engine.

I guess I like this engine because of the challenge it presents in getting the harmony of components to make fast - and more importantly consistent - lap times.

We run on a very open, fast, flowing track however there are still places where maximum punch off the turn is required. While the CRF is not delivering that punch in spades, I feel I am getting closer to working out what the engine wants.

For the record, I lost the 10min A-main by 1 second, however it was 8 seconds faster over 10mins than I have ever been before.

Cheers,

Mike.
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Old 07-17-2006, 12:19 AM   #642
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fastrcracer
Just got my new wasp installed into my RRR and started to break it in this weekend. I left the box settings on the motor and head shims as it came. I live in Louisville, Kentucky so the temp here has been in the 90's with high humidity. I was using the glow plug that came with the motor, a #6. I run 20% Trinity Platinum fuel with the RD Logics 6505 pipe. I couldn't get the motor to run at any lower than 230 degrees. The stock settings made the motor run very lean and I had to richen both the top and bottom to bring down the temp. Now the bottom end has a real bad bog after sitting for more than 5 seconds. After it cleans out it runs great, but no lower than 230. Any help would be appreciated !!!!!
First question:

Whats wrong with 230 deg?

BK
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Old 07-17-2006, 02:58 AM   #643
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fastrcracer
Just got my new wasp installed into my RRR and started to break it in this weekend. I left the box settings on the motor and head shims as it came. I live in Louisville, Kentucky so the temp here has been in the 90's with high humidity. I was using the glow plug that came with the motor, a #6. I run 20% Trinity Platinum fuel with the RD Logics 6505 pipe. I couldn't get the motor to run at any lower than 230 degrees. The stock settings made the motor run very lean and I had to richen both the top and bottom to bring down the temp. Now the bottom end has a real bad bog after sitting for more than 5 seconds. After it cleans out it runs great, but no lower than 230. Any help would be appreciated !!!!!
RTFM!! The manual say the operating temp is 257 deg F and thats what I run at. What % nitro you using? Mine bogs badly with 16% so I use 25%. I have removed 0.1mm shims and screwed in the middle needle 1/8th.

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Old 07-17-2006, 03:26 AM   #644
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at 230 degrees the engine is super rich on bottom. If it sets longer than 5 seconds it bogs and will die. If I lean it in any more to get the bog out then it starts getting hot, 265 and above.

The gearing could be off, but the problem I'm having is from idle to taking off.
It just seems that the motor is running to hot for how rich it is. Maybe it is just me.

Thanks
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Old 07-17-2006, 10:06 AM   #645
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Thats what happens to mine with 16% nitro. Try 25% and take 0.1mm out of the head

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