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Old 06-28-2006, 05:12 AM   #541
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I spoke wit ha guy who attained information from Ron Paris (RIP) saying that you're not getting the full RPM with 30% as you would with 20%. While 30% you naturally have to richen it, it does get more power due to the 30%...just not all. 20% you can lean it out for more power? Do any of you guys believe this? I'd appreciate if someone can shed a lil light on this situation...
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Old 06-28-2006, 05:39 AM   #542
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HarKonnenD
I spoke wit ha guy who attained information from Ron Paris (RIP) saying that you're not getting the full RPM with 30% as you would with 20%.
Yep... This is true, the flame speed of Nitro is much slower than the Metanol one, so adding Nitro the the mixture slows the flame speed. This should not be a problem until you hit very high rpms. There's a moment where the engine cannot pickup more rpms due because needs to burn at much higher speed the mixture in the combustion chamber.
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Old 06-28-2006, 06:01 AM   #543
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So it'd be worth it to go back to 20% then or just stick with 30? The 30 at my LHS isn't easily obtainable, but the 20%. 30% I'd have to pick up at the LHS trackside if/when I go to race. Thinking of it more it does remind me of when my friend ran his Rody 425 Roar legal 3 port against the other guyson 20% while they ran 30% and how easily he kept up with everyone and passed others.
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Old 06-28-2006, 06:06 AM   #544
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Originally Posted by Rody
Ok fine, dont buy one. They are crap and Megas are the best Blah blah blah . Now would you piss of out of this thread and fill the Mega thread with your dribble??
And then they blame me for not being constructive.......
Where in this thread do I say that Mega is the best?...
Yes please, tell me.......
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I guess
NOT...
I got to agree on that one....
A stange game it was between the Dutch and the Portugese
Good luck to you guys... (where ever did you hear a Dutch wish Germany luck?..... )
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Originally Posted by Rick Hohwart
I disagree that the sweet spot is small. It is different than that of the typical engine. So years of what one thinks is correct no longer applies. You will have to find a new sweet spot. And modify your thinking.
Ok, fair enough, but still i think this engine will run into "clutch problems"....
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And have you noticed how Serpent drivers always invade other forum posts? must be a Serpent thing.

Only Serpent drivers do that in your opinion?......
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Old 06-28-2006, 06:43 AM   #545
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HarKonnenD
So it'd be worth it to go back to 20% then or just stick with 30? The 30 at my LHS isn't easily obtainable, but the 20%. 30% I'd have to pick up at the LHS trackside if/when I go to race. Thinking of it more it does remind me of when my friend ran his Rody 425 Roar legal 3 port against the other guyson 20% while they ran 30% and how easily he kept up with everyone and passed others.
Maybe... Just do your tests with 20 and 30%, maybe they amaze you. With lesser nitro, you may need to lean it a little more and your fuel mileage will be a little higher, temps will vary and combustion chamber and carb setup need to be revised, but... More nitro doesn't needs to mean more power, but yes more fuel rate and less runtime for the same Cc.
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Old 06-28-2006, 06:51 AM   #546
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corse-R
Yep... This is true, the flame speed of Nitro is much slower than the Metanol one, so adding Nitro the the mixture slows the flame speed. This should not be a problem until you hit very high rpms. There's a moment where the engine cannot pickup more rpms due because needs to burn at much higher speed the mixture in the combustion chamber.
It also burns at a lower temp so will give you advanced timing and therefore more low end power. The CRF I have will not work with 16% in standard trim but flies with 25%. I'm sure it will work if I remove 0.1 or even 0.2mm head shims but didnt want to mess with it until after the Kyosho cup where I'll be using 25%

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Old 06-28-2006, 06:56 AM   #547
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M7H - Well, I ran 2 finals back to back at the ROAR Nationals - Both times I used the CRF Clutch and both times I ran the full 1 hour race, no flame outs, no blown glow plugs, no worn out clutch..... I believe the total was over 450 laps from the 2 races, 2 hours of hard racing!!
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Old 06-28-2006, 07:08 AM   #548
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So how did you do? Did the engine match up tot he others running?

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Old 06-28-2006, 07:26 AM   #549
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corse-R
Maybe... Just do your tests with 20 and 30%, maybe they amaze you. With lesser nitro, you may need to lean it a little more and your fuel mileage will be a little higher, temps will vary and combustion chamber and carb setup need to be revised, but... More nitro doesn't needs to mean more power, but yes more fuel rate and less runtime for the same Cc.
Yep I definately notice more fuel consumption with the 30%. Running the Rody V12 3 port std though it ran pretty fast, but I was still behind all the other guys on the track. When running against a VoneRRR with TOP TSR12 he pulled away from me very easily on the back stretch while I was still spooling up. It could have been a tuning issue, but the engine couldn't have been leaned more otherwise it'd be definately going to run slower. The Modified version my friend had has as much more power overall. Using the same pipe and gearing if we drag I usually grab the hole shot, but he will catch up in 2nd gear. I did see a Sirio Evo 3 running in an box stock R40...believe the guy was using 20% and it was VERY fast. At this point I'm not sure about swapping back, but awaiting to hear others who have tried and what really worked. The 30 works on my 8th as it was preset to run at 25%.
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Old 06-28-2006, 07:28 AM   #550
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Cyrul
M7H - Well, I ran 2 finals back to back at the ROAR Nationals - Both times I used the CRF Clutch and both times I ran the full 1 hour race, no flame outs, no blown glow plugs, no worn out clutch..... I believe the total was over 450 laps from the 2 races, 2 hours of hard racing!!
That's true.....
Ok, then my "feeling" is not correct, and I will take back my words....
Do you have any clue if and when a .21 version will be released?
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Old 06-28-2006, 10:33 AM   #551
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HarKonnenD
Yep I definately notice more fuel consumption with the 30%. Running the Rody V12 3 port std though it ran pretty fast, but I was still behind all the other guys on the track. When running against a VoneRRR with TOP TSR12 he pulled away from me very easily on the back stretch while I was still spooling up. It could have been a tuning issue, but the engine couldn't have been leaned more otherwise it'd be definately going to run slower. The Modified version my friend had has as much more power overall. Using the same pipe and gearing if we drag I usually grab the hole shot, but he will catch up in 2nd gear. I did see a Sirio Evo 3 running in an box stock R40...believe the guy was using 20% and it was VERY fast. At this point I'm not sure about swapping back, but awaiting to hear others who have tried and what really worked. The 30 works on my 8th as it was preset to run at 25%.
The TSR12S3 is one of the meanest engines out of the box. Don't ask me why, but I had two and both were absolut screamers, even compared with my NSR12S3, which is supposed to be the same engine.
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Old 06-28-2006, 10:41 AM   #552
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I find that really funny though. My TOP PT21 SP1 easily hangs with a guy's 321p and the RB C5 when I run...and they are "faster engines". Maybe there's a secret to the Top line up?
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Old 06-28-2006, 10:44 AM   #553
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The change in internal ratio will make more of difference than you can imagin.

The only real problem I have found with the G4 is that with the stock internals you just can't gear low enough for the 150ft & under size tracks. With the 18T brake pulley you will be changing your gear ratios to match what most of the Mugen & Kyosho guys seem to run for a first gear. The drop from 7.28 / 5.04 to 7.70 / 5.33 cut .5sec a lap off my times and gave me the ability to pass at will through the infield and should provide similar results for you.

Mark

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I 2nd that
I was 100% Kyosho since 1997, but then I tested a G4S and found it suited my style much better than any other car I tested.
I just need to find out if this motor is right for me, or if I'm better suited to a lower revving high torque motor.
Just waiting on Mr Postman with my pulleys.
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Old 06-28-2006, 10:53 AM   #554
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Josh,

What are your thoughts on the different nitro percentages?

Currently I am running primarily on a 150x80ft track using 30% fuel. I get better miliage than all others and have excelent power.

If I were to switch to 20% what would I be giving up? what would I gain? How would the power band change assuming I had the engine tuned as good as it is now?

Does a lower nitro mix make the motor easier to tune?

Thanks,
Mark
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Old 06-28-2006, 10:56 AM   #555
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HarKonnenD
I find that really funny though. My TOP PT21 SP1 easily hangs with a guy's 321p and the RB C5 when I run...and they are "faster engines". Maybe there's a secret to the Top line up?
There were rumors when Jim Hottinger took over the US distribution for Top engines that he had some influence on the layout (timing) of the Top engines. Mine even had a silicone bed in the crank, which I never saw on a stock NR based engine before.
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