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Old 06-13-2006, 03:44 AM   #361
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Who is going to race the CRF engine at the US National end of this week ? Would be interesting to see it against the other engines !

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Old 06-13-2006, 08:25 AM   #362
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rody
The CRF seemed to be really week down low despite it being geared so short. When the power came on, it was very fast. It seemed to make plenty of power and RPM. The guys tried a lot of different pipes, ratios, tyre diameters and still could not get it to pick up out of corners. To be fair to the engine, he did not have a Team Orion Pipe which is recomended for this engine. I'll reserve my judgement until i see it with the correct pipe.
This is typical behavior with unproper clucth setup. The original Mugen spring is way too soft.
This guys clutch is engaging too early causing the engine to bog. Our special clutch parts set will solve the problem.

Btw. the 2626 pipes are shipping right now. They'll be in the USA within the next couple of days.
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Old 06-13-2006, 10:12 AM   #363
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Nano,

Is the pipe manifold set shipping or pipe only?

Mark
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Old 06-13-2006, 12:19 PM   #364
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Originally Posted by mtveten
Nano,

Is the pipe manifold set shipping or pipe only?

Mark
It's a set.
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Old 06-13-2006, 12:22 PM   #365
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When will the other pipe sets be available because the big US distributors (GP and Horizon) are not carrying the 2626 pipe set.
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Old 06-13-2006, 09:04 PM   #366
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Based on some of our testing results, I think it’s important to emphasize the fact that the engine is really part of the “CRF System” and not really something that can be run without the other CRF components. Sure, the engine can be run with the stock clutch, other plugs and other pipes – but that’s not really how the engine is meant to be run and performance will suffer as a result of it. Advertisements and other marketing collateral should be upfront about these things, so that distributors, dealers and racers can all be properly educated. If you can properly set people’s expectations, you’ll have less dissatisfaction at all levels.

Given all that I know now, I feel like we were unknowing alpha testers. It's like, "Here is the engine. Go out and run it." But in actuality, some of us should have waited for the other parts. Going forward, people who run the entire system will be much more successful at starting the engine on the first try, breaking it in as it should be, tuning it as it should be and seeing the performance that they are expecting. I don’t feel that we were really given the same opportunity.

Just so that people don't get the wrong message, I'm not really mad about the situation, but feel that other people who haven't started their engine yet should know what they might be getting themselves into. It will spare them the frustration that some of us have been experiencing.
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Old 06-14-2006, 03:26 AM   #367
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nano
This is typical behavior with unproper clucth setup. The original Mugen spring is way too soft.
This guys clutch is engaging too early causing the engine to bog. Our special clutch parts set will solve the problem.

Btw. the 2626 pipes are shipping right now. They'll be in the USA within the next couple of days.
at one point he had the clutch engaging higher up in the rev range but was slipping, perhaps overtightening the clutch adjust nut only made the spring bind up
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Old 06-14-2006, 04:02 AM   #368
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ok about1 to 1.5 years ago novarossi was at it's selfish market dominating best. motors such as the JP's RB's and all nova based motors were around $650 australian dollars.

sirio came out along with OS with some good quality cheap motors. for a while, things were good. people could get a competition .12 for $250 australian. ($350 with a pipe).

now it seems to me, prices are going up again (ie $400 australian CRF motor that requires +$$ clutch and special pipe, OS speed motor which is a mildly tuned standard OS...nothing special just well built, $400australian, evo sti...just a plain old evo, but blueprinted..yeah ok ) just like a drug dealer hooks his new victim/customer with cheap drugs, the motor manufacturers have done the same trick. using a "too good to refuse" price margin, they introduce us to the brand, wow us with the performance, create brand loyalty, and slowly ween us onto the more expensive line of products they produce. (it happens with all products, i don't know why i act suprised...but anyway).

now if the CRF has low end issues it isn't to blame on the clutch, it's the port timming. something isn't right with the setup. and sure, the pipe makes A difference but not so much to the point that it would kill low end. (unless you are using a cheap $2.5 GPM pipe )

good job on team orion comming up with a revolutionary design, bravo, but don't tell me, or others, that during testing of the prototypes you didn't come across the issue of the low end G IT UP! and how much extra is the clutch? $50 australian?, plus the specific pipe for the motor, another $100 australian.

the motor is now a $550 dollar package, and the racer is back at square one....old novarossi prices territory... and the profit margins for manufacturers are then restored to the old 200%+ mark up territory.
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Old 06-14-2006, 04:27 AM   #369
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Quote:
Originally Posted by itchy b
at one point he had the clutch engaging higher up in the rev range but was slipping, perhaps overtightening the clutch adjust nut only made the spring bind up
itchy b
did not have the clutch set up for the day it was its first run on a track so give me a chance to work it out. at no point i had the clutch engaging to high it was comming in to low . if you were there with me you would under stand what i was doing for that test day .it first race day will be this sunday.......it will be sorted out trust me . .
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Old 06-14-2006, 05:14 AM   #370
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomB
ok about1 to 1.5 years ago novarossi was at it's selfish market dominating best. motors such as the JP's RB's and all nova based motors were around $650 australian dollars.

sirio came out along with OS with some good quality cheap motors. for a while, things were good. people could get a competition .12 for $250 australian. ($350 with a pipe).

now it seems to me, prices are going up again (ie $400 australian CRF motor that requires +$$ clutch and special pipe, OS speed motor which is a mildly tuned standard OS...nothing special just well built, $400australian, evo sti...just a plain old evo, but blueprinted..yeah ok ) just like a drug dealer hooks his new victim/customer with cheap drugs, the motor manufacturers have done the same trick. using a "too good to refuse" price margin, they introduce us to the brand, wow us with the performance, create brand loyalty, and slowly ween us onto the more expensive line of products they produce. (it happens with all products, i don't know why i act suprised...but anyway).

now if the CRF has low end issues it isn't to blame on the clutch, it's the port timming. something isn't right with the setup. and sure, the pipe makes A difference but not so much to the point that it would kill low end. (unless you are using a cheap $2.5 GPM pipe )

good job on team orion comming up with a revolutionary design, bravo, but don't tell me, or others, that during testing of the prototypes you didn't come across the issue of the low end G IT UP! and how much extra is the clutch? $50 australian?, plus the specific pipe for the motor, another $100 australian.

the motor is now a $550 dollar package, and the racer is back at square one....old novarossi prices territory... and the profit margins for manufacturers are then restored to the old 200%+ mark up territory.
Hey Tom,
All good points, I was quoted $570 AU for this motor today and a waiting time of four weeks from Frontline Hobbies. Just how much do the shops / distributors want to screw us. There is no way they can sell this motor for $265 USD from a shop I know has it in the States and then charge what they do here.

Now like you said possibly a pipe / clutch is needed to get the best out of the package, but if you look a Moorebank as an example at how many different motors are run and I think the majority use the Mugen pipe and the kit supplied clutch.
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Old 06-14-2006, 06:14 AM   #371
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and many ozzie shops wonder why most racers go online to buy their motors
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Old 06-14-2006, 06:28 AM   #372
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I would have thought just putting a stronger spring in the clutch will cure most issues.
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Old 06-14-2006, 06:33 AM   #373
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ziggy12345
I would have thought just putting a stronger spring in the clutch will cure most issues.
You know me ziggy, if Team Orion provides the Ultimate Clutch Set, I would buy it.

For any car, the kit clutch is a one size fits all deal. I think it is totally awesome that Team Orion has created a special clutch for each car. It's just going to work so much better.
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Old 06-14-2006, 06:57 AM   #374
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomB
the motor is now a $550 dollar package, and the racer is back at square one....old novarossi prices territory... and the profit margins for manufacturers are then restored to the old 200%+ mark up territory.
I don't know Tom. $550 Aussie = $404 US. I don't think that's too much to pay. I can't believe I paid $500 for a Hudy Automatic Tire Truer - but you know what, after using it, I would say it was worth it.
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Old 06-14-2006, 07:02 AM   #375
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I'm with you.. I want the engine, the clutch and all the pipes and headers

But I see what others are saying about price. There is a need for restricting cost in some catagories of racing but not all as developments of such things as the CRF will be restricted.

I had a BRB set where the timing was similar to the CRF. It was a pig to get off the line but would never stop reving!! I did manage to geti t going by changing the spring in the clutch and using very low gears so have some experiance in setting these sort of engines up.
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