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Old 06-05-2006, 11:50 AM   #211
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtveten
My motor from Rc-Mart arrived on shcedule and its in the car now.
So they did have the motors then?
I ordered from them last Tuesday and got a message today saying they are out of stock
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Old 06-05-2006, 12:35 PM   #212
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Yep, they had them. I ordered 2 Monday about 1/2 hour after the posted them.

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Old 06-05-2006, 01:09 PM   #213
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If anyone wants one, there are less than a handful in stock at HRP. Have you local hobby shop order it.

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Old 06-05-2006, 02:50 PM   #214
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stefan - Ok. Well, they need to gear the motor about 1 pinion lower (did they?) and they should try another pipe. The 2601 pipe is good and consistant but there are other combinations that really make the motor come to life.
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Old 06-05-2006, 04:12 PM   #215
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Cyrul
stefan - Ok. Well, they need to gear the motor about 1 pinion lower (did they?) and they should try another pipe. The 2601 pipe is good and consistant but there are other combinations that really make the motor come to life.
Can you share your combinations?
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Old 06-05-2006, 04:52 PM   #216
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At this point, I think it would be beneficial to get some test results using the headers and pipes that were specifically made for use with the engine. I'm not about to spend $250-300 to test 5-6 pipes, just to find out that none of them work better than the factory ones.

I also believe, that any performance comparisons with other engines are premature until the factory headers and pipes are used. It would be like comparing a Ferari running wooden wagon wheels to a Corvette running the fastest speed rated tires.

Are the glow plugs, headers and tuned pipes available in stores yet?
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Old 06-06-2006, 01:19 AM   #217
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Cyrul
stefan - Ok. Well, they need to gear the motor about 1 pinion lower (did they?) and they should try another pipe. The 2601 pipe is good and consistant but there are other combinations that really make the motor come to life.
Josh, we did gear their cars down a tooth since the never wound out on the straight and it helped.

What pipe (that is available) should they use then?
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Old 06-06-2006, 07:00 AM   #218
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I was told that the Novarossi 2601 pipe and a conical Mega short manifold combination are really good but I haven't had a chance to test much. I did test an old Sirio pipe and header and it was quite good.
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Old 06-06-2006, 07:15 AM   #219
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I think Team Orion need to get the info around as fast as possible on clutch and gearing as there already some negative comments coming back about lack of torque.

I think the engine will be a great match for the RRR as you need to run as small a wheel as possible to get the best. I am constantly running out of gear.

What is the head clearance out of the box?

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Old 06-06-2006, 09:01 AM   #220
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Quote:
I think Team Orion need to get the info around as fast as possible on clutch and gearing as there already some negative comments coming back about lack of torque.

I think the engine will be a great match for the RRR as you need to run as small a wheel as possible to get the best. I am constantly running out of gear.

What is the head clearance out of the box?

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0.3mm total head shimming, and 0.65-0.70mm head to piston clearance.

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Old 06-06-2006, 09:13 AM   #221
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The head clearance sounds very high. The nominal for a .12 engine for 16% fuel is 0.3-0.4mm head clearance and 0.4-0.5mm for 25%. Even if you remove all the shims you only get .4mm

This is so the correct pressure is seen at TDC for ignition. I can only assume the engine produces double the pressure in the crank case. Has anybody tried to remove the shims?
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Old 06-06-2006, 01:13 PM   #222
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In Spain at sea level some drivers are using 0,1 mm to increase compression, it is also creating lot of torque. At CRF they use it stock with 0,3 mm. from what I heard, the altitude and the athmospheric pressure can vary and then adjustment could change performances. Concerning the pipe the one I saw in use is the EFRA 2626.

Has someone tried the under cylinder spacer ?
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Team Orion CRF Wasp Rev X-Dyno results-efra2626.jpg  
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Old 06-06-2006, 02:07 PM   #223
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barclayrc
In Spain at sea level some drivers are using 0,1 mm to increase compression, it is also creating lot of torque. At CRF they use it stock with 0,3 mm. from what I heard, the altitude and the athmospheric pressure can vary and then adjustment could change performances. Concerning the pipe the one I saw in use is the EFRA 2626.

Has someone tried the under cylinder spacer ?
Good info. I'm running at about sea level as well (100 yards from the Pacific Ocean). Do you know what plug and % nitro they were using?

I wonder how much time the guys developing the engine spent testing the engine with other plugs and pipes under different environmental conditions. Like many things, if you over optimize something using specific equipment, under specific environmental conditions, it may narrow the range in which the engine will perform to it's maximum capability with other equipment under significantly different environmental conditions. Because of how fuel flow was reengineered, I wonder what opening or closing the high speed needle by more than one turn does to engine performance.

It's really too bad that oxygen sensor type technology hasn't found it's way into nitro engines yet.

Called Ultimate Hobbies at 11am PST. They have not seen any CRF glow plugs or pipes as of yet. Rick: Have you got an updated ETA for us? Thanks!
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Old 06-06-2006, 02:17 PM   #224
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A few news from the Swiss side.

The glow plugs, the CRF plugs are not the same as the previous Team Orion glow plugs. The CRF plugs have been designed for this engine and this engine has been designed using these plugs. They are not just another glow plug, they have been tought about and tested at CRF, just like the engine. You can try using other stuff but results may vary and you might mess up the engine's head trying to fit them.

Gearing, I have been using this gearing (which is what the CRF test team uses) 7.58 for the 1st gear and 5.47 for the 2nd gear. These obviously are on the short side and might need to be adapted but at least you get something to start with.

Pipes and headers, as most of you probably know headers and pipes are very important, certain header/pipe combinations work and others don't. So far from our testing you are better off using headers/pipes that favor low end torque, the engine will take care of the top end speed, power and torque. I have tested the 2626 pipe pictured above and it is a very good pipe to use with the engine.

Clutches, we are preparing special tuning sets for different types of clutches, They include special weights using very hard material to limit binding on the flywheel, a shoe made out of a selected type of teflon and most importantly a special spring made with square wire. With this setup you will get the best clutch function for this engine.

ORI88650 TEAM ORION CRF Clutch conversion kit Kyosho (RRR)

ORI88651 TEAM ORION CRF Clutch conversion kit Serpent (710)

ORI88652 TEAM ORION CRF Clutch conversion kit HPI/Mugen

That's all for now!
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Old 06-06-2006, 02:26 PM   #225
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rmd
I had the chance to discuss with nano from Team Orion and he explaine me lot of interesting things concerning the CRF project. He said that Fabrice the designer of the engine tried everything since 2 years. Many plugs can work but he was not satisfied with the life of them. Since he had the possibility to see some special team plugs used by some team drivers of other engine manufacturer, he decided to create the CRF plugs which are just supposed to have longer life and excellent ignition. And make them available to all of us.

Concerning fuel he has tested all the available fuel and many brands are good. He also mentionned that low oil percentages can be used since the typhoon effect in the engine is improving a lot the distribution of oil. And the Nikasil treatment also allow less percentage for more power.

In Europe we use 16% this is the EFRA rule, and in Spain they used only 0,1mm at sea level. Nano mentioned that Fabrice wanted to have 0,3 mm to allow the engine to be used out of the box from 16% to 40% Nitro but this is one key adjustment which need to be made by each driver based on his own condition.

The main needle need to be adjusted based on the pipe used and how much back pressure you get in your fuel tank. Josh was explaining in his post that he had to close 10 hours with the Sirio pipe, the original setting is made for the CRF 2626 pipe and also is great for the torque/speed pipe.

Also the last thing since the engine is much more powerfull and revs higher than others, the clutch need to be adjusted like 1/8 scale cars and this will create excellent response. Last thing Nano said is that Orion is going to offer clutch conversion kits including weight, shoe and a special spring to make sure that everything is going smooth for the users.
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