36LikesMaximising engine characteristics.
09-24-2017, 07:11 AM
#136
Hello 30Tooth,
The most important thing in the step of removing Con-Rod from the Crankshaft is You have to pull the Crankshaft to the Front most position!!! This is the most important!!! Sometimes the Crankshaft is slide a bit to the back side of the Engine, at this position the Con-Rod will be difficult to take out.
Cheers..
The most important thing in the step of removing Con-Rod from the Crankshaft is You have to pull the Crankshaft to the Front most position!!! This is the most important!!! Sometimes the Crankshaft is slide a bit to the back side of the Engine, at this position the Con-Rod will be difficult to take out.
Cheers..
09-26-2017, 02:22 PM
#137
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B2...jFpZ2FQVmxPUG8
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B2...zI0ZVU0SlJ5ZTg
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B2...VFPUDBqMUFhTWs
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B2...0VfWHJ5ZTFNQkk
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B2...2IyWnJ2V0Fjbm8
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B2...k0ySXFMOXF4Slk
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B2...VRONnp3RkhyblE
Thanks guys! We did it.
Very surprised to see a top and bottom oil groove on the piston, check that out!
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B2...zI0ZVU0SlJ5ZTg
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B2...VFPUDBqMUFhTWs
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B2...0VfWHJ5ZTFNQkk
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B2...2IyWnJ2V0Fjbm8
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B2...k0ySXFMOXF4Slk
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B2...VRONnp3RkhyblE
Thanks guys! We did it.
Very surprised to see a top and bottom oil groove on the piston, check that out!
09-24-2018, 06:30 AM
#138
Seems the woes with the S5 are gone, the clean grooves and the new pipe seemed to have worked wonders...
That said, while chasing a percent here and there is a good mind game, a correctly tuned pipe can net you double digit gains. Start there first.
That said, while chasing a percent here and there is a good mind game, a correctly tuned pipe can net you double digit gains. Start there first.
09-25-2018, 04:13 AM
#139
Tech Master
No, i do not belive that is the case.
I used to import Recab engnes from France. They took the V-spec and DLC coated the crankshaft long before OS did it them self... They were very good!
We did try the new rod from the OS V.spec speed and put into the old V-spec with an uncoated crankshaft. (the VZ-B speed had the oilhole like Novarossi in the conrod). Did not help one bit. Still wore out out before 8 liters. The Recab DLC cranks were very good, with the oilhole.
As i see it, OS needed DLC to make their cranks holding up. I still have Recab VZ-B coated cranks that have ran 60-70 liters of fuel in very good condition. Actually, I did test one of the VZ-B engines up againt the B2101 i have just 4 weeks ago :-)
I used to import Recab engnes from France. They took the V-spec and DLC coated the crankshaft long before OS did it them self... They were very good!
We did try the new rod from the OS V.spec speed and put into the old V-spec with an uncoated crankshaft. (the VZ-B speed had the oilhole like Novarossi in the conrod). Did not help one bit. Still wore out out before 8 liters. The Recab DLC cranks were very good, with the oilhole.
As i see it, OS needed DLC to make their cranks holding up. I still have Recab VZ-B coated cranks that have ran 60-70 liters of fuel in very good condition. Actually, I did test one of the VZ-B engines up againt the B2101 i have just 4 weeks ago :-)
Last edited by am; 09-25-2018 at 04:25 AM.
09-25-2018, 07:05 AM
#140
DLC is a surface hardening, that means the metal underneath it does not be that hard keeping some flex preventing a break.
DLC does give performance although with 10% lubrication we do not need that but in ourr engines it also gives some simplicity in hardening and choices of metals
DLC does give performance although with 10% lubrication we do not need that but in ourr engines it also gives some simplicity in hardening and choices of metals
09-25-2018, 11:05 PM
#142
Tech Master
DLC is a surface hardening, that means the metal underneath it does not be that hard keeping some flex preventing a break.
DLC does give performance although with 10% lubrication we do not need that but in ourr engines it also gives some simplicity in hardening and choices of metals
DLC does give performance although with 10% lubrication we do not need that but in ourr engines it also gives some simplicity in hardening and choices of metals
DLC is a surface coating, not hardening. of the metals. DLC is is put on the surface abaout 250-350 degrees celscius. This is aneeling temps not hardning temps. I know what temps and witch DLC manufactor that Recab used. I have used them myself for DLC coating. I have also read that Rody tested DLC many years ago but felt the engines missed a little snap becuse of the cranks went softer after the prosess of DLC.
09-26-2018, 04:45 AM
#143
Yes, it is a coating with 2 goals, a lower friction and a harder surface (diamond-like...)
DLC knows several different processes, there is also a cold methode but so far I was told that is not that solid.
DLC knows several different processes, there is also a cold methode but so far I was told that is not that solid.
09-26-2018, 09:07 AM
#144
It's Math time!!!
My (breathes in deeply) Sirio S21B Kanai EVOIII STI (gasping) uses 125cc in 8 minutes (480 seconds) at an average speed of 40Km/h (22500rpm average too).
That's 0.26cc per second at an average of 22500rpm, which translates to 375 rotations per second each using 0,00069cc each combustion in average.
Going by the top speed which was 60km/h the rpm were around 35000 and from the top of the combustion chamber to top of exhaust port are 10.8mm that means the air/fuel ratio mixture burns and expands at an average of 6,35m/s per each combustion cycle when at 35k rpm.
No signs of detonation but it's not far off.
My (breathes in deeply) Sirio S21B Kanai EVOIII STI (gasping) uses 125cc in 8 minutes (480 seconds) at an average speed of 40Km/h (22500rpm average too).
That's 0.26cc per second at an average of 22500rpm, which translates to 375 rotations per second each using 0,00069cc each combustion in average.
Going by the top speed which was 60km/h the rpm were around 35000 and from the top of the combustion chamber to top of exhaust port are 10.8mm that means the air/fuel ratio mixture burns and expands at an average of 6,35m/s per each combustion cycle when at 35k rpm.
No signs of detonation but it's not far off.
09-27-2018, 01:38 AM
#145
Building on the last post, for increased combustion power (more pressure on the combustion chamber-CC) one can only increase air/fuel mix for each cycle (turbo engines for example), more heat and/or more powerful fuel (increase in nitro for example). Being a given that we are after maximum efficiency then we have to be sure the mix that's in the CC gets 100% burned. Burned faster means the engine can rev more but lose bottom end torque, slowly and the engine is lazy to rev, that leaves the more heat option.
IC engines convert fuel to thermal energy, they used heat from air expansion to pressurise the top of the cylinder to push the piston down. The more heat it can generates the more efficient it can be! You should run as much heat in the CC as the materials can, using for example less material on the heatsink or more on the case and head button. That puts the engine on the edge of pre detonation but you can retard ignition with more head clearance or colder glow plug and so on...
I have a RB S5 that uses a tall head (usual for the time) and I also have the lower grade CS Sport which has a head that is roughly 15mm shorter. Tests are commencing now.
IC engines convert fuel to thermal energy, they used heat from air expansion to pressurise the top of the cylinder to push the piston down. The more heat it can generates the more efficient it can be! You should run as much heat in the CC as the materials can, using for example less material on the heatsink or more on the case and head button. That puts the engine on the edge of pre detonation but you can retard ignition with more head clearance or colder glow plug and so on...
I have a RB S5 that uses a tall head (usual for the time) and I also have the lower grade CS Sport which has a head that is roughly 15mm shorter. Tests are commencing now.
09-27-2018, 04:59 AM
#146
Problem with our engines is that there is an operating temperature giving the piston and sleeve the right fit and due the expansion rates a wide enough window to keep expansion in sync. More heat will result in an out of sync expansion giving a musch smaller window to operate and not to mention the limits where heat will make materials weak.
You need to bring in more cooling to keep te materials on a low tamperature while you can create more burning heat. A thicker cooling head with combustion chamber in one piece will give more cooling as also Picco has done with largere button heads with 3 cooling fins and even the Sirio 2003WCR with a complete sleeve with cooling fins.
At the end tere is not much to gain with combustion temps but different cooling heads can controol the expansion of the sleeve in different weather conditions
You need to bring in more cooling to keep te materials on a low tamperature while you can create more burning heat. A thicker cooling head with combustion chamber in one piece will give more cooling as also Picco has done with largere button heads with 3 cooling fins and even the Sirio 2003WCR with a complete sleeve with cooling fins.
At the end tere is not much to gain with combustion temps but different cooling heads can controol the expansion of the sleeve in different weather conditions
09-27-2018, 07:08 AM
#147
Thicker and finned sleeve? Maybe the case having more fins? Regardless, you want more heat in the combustion chamber not the piston and sleeve.
I also thought about wrapping the pipe with thermal insulation like we see on some racing engines.
I also thought about wrapping the pipe with thermal insulation like we see on some racing engines.
09-27-2018, 12:41 PM
#148
Tech Fanatic
It's Math time!!!
My (breathes in deeply) Sirio S21B Kanai EVOIII STI (gasping) uses 125cc in 8 minutes (480 seconds) at an average speed of 40Km/h (22500rpm average too).
That's 0.26cc per second at an average of 22500rpm, which translates to 375 rotations per second each using 0,00069cc each combustion in average.
Going by the top speed which was 60km/h the rpm were around 35000 and from the top of the combustion chamber to top of exhaust port are 10.8mm that means the air/fuel ratio mixture burns and expands at an average of 6,35m/s per each combustion cycle when at 35k rpm.
No signs of detonation but it's not far off.
My (breathes in deeply) Sirio S21B Kanai EVOIII STI (gasping) uses 125cc in 8 minutes (480 seconds) at an average speed of 40Km/h (22500rpm average too).
That's 0.26cc per second at an average of 22500rpm, which translates to 375 rotations per second each using 0,00069cc each combustion in average.
Going by the top speed which was 60km/h the rpm were around 35000 and from the top of the combustion chamber to top of exhaust port are 10.8mm that means the air/fuel ratio mixture burns and expands at an average of 6,35m/s per each combustion cycle when at 35k rpm.
No signs of detonation but it's not far off.
Building on the last post, for increased combustion power (more pressure on the combustion chamber-CC) one can only increase air/fuel mix for each cycle (turbo engines for example), more heat and/or more powerful fuel (increase in nitro for example). Being a given that we are after maximum efficiency then we have to be sure the mix that's in the CC gets 100% burned. Burned faster means the engine can rev more but lose bottom end torque, slowly and the engine is lazy to rev, that leaves the more heat option.
IC engines convert fuel to thermal energy, they used heat from air expansion to pressurise the top of the cylinder to push the piston down. The more heat it can generates the more efficient it can be! You should run as much heat in the CC as the materials can, using for example less material on the heatsink or more on the case and head button. That puts the engine on the edge of pre detonation but you can retard ignition with more head clearance or colder glow plug and so on...
I have a RB S5 that uses a tall head (usual for the time) and I also have the lower grade CS Sport which has a head that is roughly 15mm shorter. Tests are commencing now.
IC engines convert fuel to thermal energy, they used heat from air expansion to pressurise the top of the cylinder to push the piston down. The more heat it can generates the more efficient it can be! You should run as much heat in the CC as the materials can, using for example less material on the heatsink or more on the case and head button. That puts the engine on the edge of pre detonation but you can retard ignition with more head clearance or colder glow plug and so on...
I have a RB S5 that uses a tall head (usual for the time) and I also have the lower grade CS Sport which has a head that is roughly 15mm shorter. Tests are commencing now.
First of, do you want to make the most power or the most fuel efficient engine? They don't go hand in hand, just look at the tests they have done between sports cars and ECO friendly cars. The ECO friendly car runs as fast as it can around a track and the sport car follows behind, the sport car always use less fuel.
Second, why would the engine lose bottom end, and throttle respons from a quicker burn rate?
Third, if you'e running in to preignition you don't want to increase the head clearance (in itself).
09-27-2018, 12:49 PM
#149
Tech Fanatic
Problem with our engines is that there is an operating temperature giving the piston and sleeve the right fit and due the expansion rates a wide enough window to keep expansion in sync. More heat will result in an out of sync expansion giving a musch smaller window to operate and not to mention the limits where heat will make materials weak.
You need to bring in more cooling to keep te materials on a low tamperature while you can create more burning heat. A thicker cooling head with combustion chamber in one piece will give more cooling as also Picco has done with largere button heads with 3 cooling fins and even the Sirio 2003WCR with a complete sleeve with cooling fins.
At the end tere is not much to gain with combustion temps but different cooling heads can controol the expansion of the sleeve in different weather conditions
You need to bring in more cooling to keep te materials on a low tamperature while you can create more burning heat. A thicker cooling head with combustion chamber in one piece will give more cooling as also Picco has done with largere button heads with 3 cooling fins and even the Sirio 2003WCR with a complete sleeve with cooling fins.
At the end tere is not much to gain with combustion temps but different cooling heads can controol the expansion of the sleeve in different weather conditions
I agree that they are well setup generally as they are, and it's not only about materials but also about the fuel and lubricants that needs to work well.
09-27-2018, 01:18 PM
#150
They actually over did it with 3 fins and only used it for one year I believe, I did solve the problem with it but it was better to go back to a little bit less fins.
I agree that they are well setup generally as they are, and it's not only about materials but also about the fuel and lubricants that needs to work well.
I agree that they are well setup generally as they are, and it's not only about materials but also about the fuel and lubricants that needs to work well.