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Old 05-04-2017, 02:30 AM   #16
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Good Topic.

I am effectively a "starter" After 20+ years flying Helis and planes my interest had waned. My 2 boys 10 and 8 are xbox freaks and it was extremely sad to see.
I personally had no interest in RC cars but I showed the boys them racing on YT and both showed interest. Contacted our local club and fortunately the guy on the end of the phone was helpful and even offered us a couple of old Team C truggy chassis for next to nothing.

I was the guy other's asked to help tune there helis. After 12 months of fiddling I think I have finally got these engines in the ballpark. So yes someone straight off the street would have a hell of a time working them out and need all the help you can give them.

My older boy is hooked and loves the sport, my younger boy didn't like the Nitro Truggy so I got him a SC which he likes but we are not there yet.

Me? This is the most fun and addictive form of RC I have ever been involved in. It's also by far the most expensive. I hardly ever crashed a heli, so basicly it was just fuel. My Rave (heli) was 7 years old before something browned out and it fell over.

The fact is there is nothing you can do to help those who can't afford the sport no matter how keen they are. So money is actually not the problem. From my personal experience had I not got the right guy on the phone I would not be involved. Always welcome people who visit your club meets. If they buy a nitro give them all the help you can till they get hooked. That may take several months.
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Old 05-04-2017, 02:37 AM   #17
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That the thing. There is this perception that if the engine doesn't cost $350+ its low quality junk.

Next time someone posts a "what engine should I buy?" thread, 75% of the responses will tell them to buy some high end mil. Why? My Novarossi Elite5 is a great engine and it was only $125. Why would anyone tell someone new to nitro to buy a high end engine?
I was going to make the same comment. We brought JS engines to begin with and after the last one blew I admit I threw all 3 cars under the bench and they sat there for almost 12 months. I went back to flying and the kids went back to the xbox.

Eventually I brought a Nova P5 for $192.00 from Amain and that has been a great engine. We now have 4 Novas and two OS Speed. In reality yes the Speeds are very nice to run but value for money the cheap Novas kill it.

I think if I had bought another cheap Taiwanese brand and it blew up in short time I would have left the sport for ever. Thank christ for the cheap Nova option.
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Old 05-04-2017, 04:11 AM   #18
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The point of Nitro not being for beginners is very valid and true! In the 70's-80's you never saw an Child or Adolescent running Nitro at all really. It usually was an older person, Adult or Racer that ran Nitro.

I know that Traxxas tried to do a good thing and bring Nitro to the masses, yet I do not think they did nitro any favors with their EZ Start system, which in my eyes led every Joe, Tom and Bob to assume Nitro is so easy. Only later did they realize, to some extent due to the flawed 3.3 motor, that is not the case. Then they all wanted to convert their car to .21 - .32 Truggy Motors.

One thing I do like is that Serpent had started the Development Driver Program, which sounds great, and I should admit I do not understand or know 100% how that program is run, but I feel its a step in the right direction.

Its just like back in the day at 1/12 races (6cell) and 1/10 Pan (Pro10 & Oval) there used to be clinics put on by the sponsored drivers (T. Neisinger, J. Johnson, K. Clauson, B. Bartos to name a few), this was great, and I think would be welcomed today even at the races. I know there are some "know it all" Racers that would think they are too good for it, yet think of how many younger kids or humble racers would gladly attend such a clinic with A. Drake, R. Lutz, Tebo or Easton?

Yes, perhaps E-buggy is a great entry, yet I think realistically, then such a class should run a Spec motor and ESC! Because once they get their speed fix, there is nothing more to entice them to Nitro and learn some more.
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Old 05-04-2017, 05:28 AM   #19
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Nitro has a bad reputation for being "difficult" because 90% of first time nitro buyers get their hands on a Traxxas product and their lovely super short LSN carburetor.
By lovely, I mean a piece of garbage.
I truly beleive if Traxxas had a more user friendly carburetor design, the nitro world in general would have been better received by the newbies.

At any rate, nitro isn't going anywhere. There will always be a niche.
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Old 05-04-2017, 06:20 AM   #20
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Funny thing in the onroad is that E-versions of the 1/8 scales is not getting populair. YES, the 6S setups are real speed and torque monsters but the lack of sound, smell and technology does not make it attractive for the avarage racer. Also the Buri car is a nice and cheap alternitive but still it has a very small group of supporters.

On the other hand the 1st choice of a starter is an offroad car because you can run it anywhere and then it is obvious that he/she will stick with offroad.
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Old 05-04-2017, 08:06 AM   #21
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d be welcomed today even at the races. I know there are some "know it all" Racers that would think they are too good for it, yet think of how many younger kids or humble racers would gladly attend such a clinic with A. Drake, R. Lutz, Tebo or Easton?
adam is actually doing one of those in edmonton in july, pretty cool hes coming all the way up to northern alberta.
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Old 05-04-2017, 12:38 PM   #22
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Nitro is tough for a lot of people to pick up simply because its the fist small engine in their life. If you grew up in a rural area with a big mower , weed eater , mini bike , boat , motorcycle , what ever , you have dealt with the basics before. Running nitro is a progression from things you have seen and done before. If you grew up in a apartment complex or the city, chances are good you just never got exposed to any of that . That certainly would make the nitro learning curve a bit more difficult. Electric has its place , and it deserves some respect for bringing in new comers. They can get into 1/8 scale racing , go fast , and own and race a car that wont break every time they run it . My e cars were all less expensive than my nitro cars , and probably got more track time too. BUT .... The nitro cars drive better imo. They get away with things e cars cant , both in the air and on the ground. The LHS would do themselves a favor if they would just spend 20 minutes on a sat or Sunday morning doing a nitro 101 class . My track on a weekend without a race is usually full of electric cars , but when you break out a full tilt .21 race buggy or truggy things change. I see people want to experience it themselves , and they always ask 2 questions .... We all have heard them ...

How fast is it ?

How much does it cost ?

The latter usually kills the idea
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Old 05-04-2017, 02:02 PM   #23
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At our track the nitro's out number the electrics by about 2:1. Electric is for 1/10 and 1/12 off-road and on-road.
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Old 05-04-2017, 03:51 PM   #24
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Nitro in the buggy/car scene has been declining for years now.

In the rc boat racing world nitro is very much alive and well though. In our district which is D-14 its all nitro and gas. There is no electrics at this time that are in the points series. Now there are some clubs that are all electric based but its not as common as gas and nitro.

Although i still modify car and buggy engines i do more boat engines these days... Not because i prefer one over the other its simply due to where the demand is. That and i don't have the time to constantly advertise my services of forums such as this.

I haven't been on here in a long time actually as i have been so busy with my other business etc. But still going full force!
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Old 05-05-2017, 04:36 AM   #25
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1.) Nitro is not as hard as many make it out to be. I don't think it's all THAT bad for a beginner, as long as he has someone to help. No he can't throw a buggy on the starter box and go, but he can mess around for a few months with an RTR or something, then - with the right support at the track etc.. - move into racing a P5XLT or whatever. It used to be you got your head around nitro with a Savage or T-maxx or Revo or something(and yes, Traxxas engines suck and give nitro a bad name..), then moving on to racing wasn't that big a deal. In any case, I don't think nitro is as massive a learning curve as some make out. I do think some people make it out to be a kind of rocket science it is not.

2.) I kind of doubt nitro racing is in a net decline. I had never even heard of nitro buggy racing before I got my RTR Savage and bought stuff from Slapmafro. Their videos were probably the first I'd ever seen.. AFAIK it was a very obscure niche thing. The nitro MT craze gave it a huge shot in the arm. And IMO it's still living to a certain extent off that surge. A lot of people reading this are more into racing for racing's sake I think. They care more about shaving a fraction of a second off their lap time than the raw gearhead fun and excitement that goes with high screaming nitro engines. But it's nitro that makes racing fun IMO, more than the racing...

3.) The main problem with nitro racing is probably a problem with racing in general: people take it way too damn seriously. And OK, if we accept that nitro is a bit more of a challenge to start off with, then of course you're not going to see an explosion of participation numbers - not when the new guys show up at a race and see everyone running an OS Speed (preferably modded..), a spare kit under the table, a box full of 20 sets of new tires, and on and on... Too many people take racing way too seriously. And whether you like it or not, there is a constant pressure to spend more more MORE. No, you don't need a Speed etc. A P5XLT is great. But season after season you're already spending so much money and time, it becomes a difference of degree rather than one of kind. Looming over everything is the thought "well, you already spent two grand, why not three?.." The pressure is always there, and it gets annoying having to ignore it all the time. It's always in your face.

And the pace of it is constantly accelerating. Not only do you have to have all that top high-end expensive gear. But that $700 chassis you just bought will be replaced by a V3 or whatever version seven months later, and even if you barely use it you won't be able to sell it for jack...

IMO the last/third point is the biggest threat to racing. And as long as it stays that way I have no regrets about its possible or eventual demise.

Electric does suck too...
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Old 05-05-2017, 10:11 AM   #26
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Totally agree on your 3rd point. Big problem
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Old 05-05-2017, 10:48 AM   #27
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I think that RC as a market in general is struggling (and many others) and while many good arguments and points have been cited so far, no one has mentioned the crappy state of the economy. Disposable income is harder to come by, and the first things on the chopping block are the money pit frivolities.
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Old 05-05-2017, 04:02 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DGP View Post
I was going to make the same comment. We brought JS engines to begin with and after the last one blew I admit I threw all 3 cars under the bench and they sat there for almost 12 months. I went back to flying and the kids went back to the xbox.

Eventually I brought a Nova P5 for $192.00 from Amain and that has been a great engine. We now have 4 Novas and two OS Speed. In reality yes the Speeds are very nice to run but value for money the cheap Novas kill it.

I think if I had bought another cheap Taiwanese brand and it blew up in short time I would have left the sport for ever. Thank christ for the cheap Nova option.
I fly helis/planes too. I'm a car guy since the 80's... cars are way more expensive than a helicopter lol!!!! Always in your pocket for something,but cars are more fun..
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Old 05-05-2017, 04:32 PM   #29
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Nitro doesn't have to be expensive,it's what you make it. If racing,its expensive period. When I first started with my mugen athlete, I came to the track that was held at a park and their were not any organized racing,just fun. I didn't have not one spare part,maybe a plug and only one set of large lug tires. Now I bring my own mobile hobby store like the rest of us. It's not by choice,it's mandatory.

When new guys approach me with questions,I try to give them the cost on the lower scale, rather than tell them what I really have invested. My son is a alpha driver, but I tell guys about sh engines. I know that seems wrong but,hey I was a guy trying to get a good deal too at one point...

Judging by the turnouts we have at our races here in socal,nitro is still booming. Only thing I've seen drop off is nitro support at races from tlr and kyosho,especially since they are local to all the socal tracks.
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Old 05-05-2017, 05:08 PM   #30
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Quality cheaper engines is key, also kits cost way too much I feel for a beginner to get involved. I started racing last spring w/ a rc8.2 rtr. I felt that the reedy engine was a good first engine. It had a wide tuning window as well as a easy break in. Of course people told me it sucked also the pull start one way bearing was killing my speed and I needed to get rid of the pull start asap. All of us racers say rtr's suck and to buy a kit, for the most part the rtr's are junk tho. I think that if the kits were 300 instead of 600 it would help bring more people into the hobby. Tires are also crazy overpriced, you can buy a full size radial car tire for the price of 4 mounted buggy/truggy tires. 10th scale tires are the most overpriced I feel. Everything is just so expensive in the rc racing scene. With out the right tires (compound/tread) most of the time you will be off the pace of the rest, especially if your new to operating rc cars. Getting up to pace is hard enough when your starting off, a super loose rear end is gonna make it even harder to keep up. That's my 2 cents
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