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New break-in method

Old 01-02-2018, 11:40 AM
  #91  
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Originally Posted by SlowLST2
How do you quantify the results of using the system?
Can you prove it does not work?
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Old 01-02-2018, 11:51 AM
  #92  
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Got my popcorn and drink!
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Old 01-02-2018, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by SlowLST2
How do you quantify the results of using the system?
Simple, if you want to buy such a system for just yourself doing probably one engine a year then yes, it is an expensive piece of machine. But if you have the budget and find a break-in very anoying it is still worth it, I know several privateers who has just bought one for private use but they do use 3 to 5 engines a year.

Most people buying it have started a break-in service (See EBIS facebook page) and then it will make money with a relative small investment. These kind of people are shop owners, distributors but also clubmembers offering a service within the club.
The quality is that good that even after several hundred engines no maintenance is needed than only maybe a new sealing of a few bucks.

The results all over the world are the same.

And if you understand the working (heated oil bath with a low RPM electric motor rotating the engine) you can make one by yourself. I did and I love it.
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Old 01-02-2018, 01:50 PM
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I know LST2 knows this but for clarity I will repeat what I've learned from a reputable metallurgist.

Here's the deal, the EBIS does 95% of the break in process which is seating of the parts without wearing down critical areas like the conrod bushings and piston.

There is still one thing to do which is related to molecular change in the piston itself, for which heat is needed. See it like the final step, piston shaping. The intent is to shape the piston (which is softer than the chrome plating or it would be the sleeve/liner that would be shaped) to have 100% fit on the sleeve. Then there's the silicon content on the alloy. The more silicon there is in the piston the harder it is to dissolve homogeneously in the crystal structure, the piston has to reach high temperatures so the crystal structures are formed (heat cycling).

The piston will grow (the more silicon the less it will grow) and worn in (spelling?) on the sides providing a close to perfect fit on the tapered sleeve which will change geometry a tiny bit. With old school methods you reach this point by wearing the rotating parts, with the EBIS you just need to fire up the engine and heat cycle the piston a couple times to be ready.

Parts purposely left out:
-how and why the piston crown is shaped;
-piston lapping;
-silicon content % ratios and their outcomes;
-other engines that go through master-slave break in;
-ringed engine with mineral oil break in;
-micro cast vs billet;
-forging.
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Last edited by 30Tooth; 01-02-2018 at 02:10 PM.
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Old 01-02-2018, 06:55 PM
  #95  
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One or two fellas calls this thing (basically) a glorified piston lapping tool and another fella says it breaks an engine in 95%. You guys are “in the know” if you will, yet there’s a bit of a difference in opinion as to what this thing is supposed to be doing and what it really does...

There is a much more consistent result amongst the traditional methods. So - I’ll drop the subject and move on because tradition hasn’t failed me - or anyone I know - in 20+ years of running methanol engines ranging from dirt cheap Chinese engines to fully CNC manufactured and hand fitted AAC high performance engines. Not a single engine manufacturer that I have ever dealt with or owned specified any other method to break in their engines other than the traditional methods. If this was so great of a method, everyone would be doing it.

Sorry to ruffle the feathers. I’m done and out. Happy racing!
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Old 01-02-2018, 07:08 PM
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Dang. And I was enjoying this
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Old 01-02-2018, 07:17 PM
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Here is how to "prove" which break in method works. Break in one engine traditionally, break in one engine via EBIS. Observe, compare and document results, using a double blind test. Look for temperature, wear, performance, longevity etc. Then repeat at least 10 times and average out the results. SlowLST2 you cant call anyone lazy for not doing this, unless you are willing to do it yourself.

Another, but less a curate way to do the test is to listen to the hundreds of customers who are breaking in engines via EBIS. If the consensus is positive and corroborates with the theory behind EBIS break ins, likely it is a successful method. Like the already proven traditional method, which was also unproven at one stage.

So your argument that some dudes who fly stuff have made a protest about this break in method is rather weak scientifically or quantitavely speaking...
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Old 01-02-2018, 07:43 PM
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There’s a reason why the current world champion has one. I’ve also heard Ty Tessman got one as well. If your looking for the best possible break in and every engine is broken in the same way. This is the only way to go!!

https://www.facebook.com/DavidRonnef...3513495701645/
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Old 01-02-2018, 11:58 PM
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Originally Posted by SlowLST2
One or two fellas calls this thing (basically) a glorified piston lapping tool and another fella says it breaks an engine in 95%. You guys are “in the know” if you will, yet there’s a bit of a difference in opinion as to what this thing is supposed to be doing and what it really does...

There is a much more consistent result amongst the traditional methods. So - I’ll drop the subject and move on because tradition hasn’t failed me - or anyone I know - in 20+ years of running methanol engines ranging from dirt cheap Chinese engines to fully CNC manufactured and hand fitted AAC high performance engines. Not a single engine manufacturer that I have ever dealt with or owned specified any other method to break in their engines other than the traditional methods. If this was so great of a method, everyone would be doing it.

Sorry to ruffle the feathers. I’m done and out. Happy racing!
An opinion without an own experience is not really an opinion or is it?
Basically yes, it is a laping tool and yes it does the break in close to 100% As mentioned a few tanks is needed to work with the changing size of the piston due floating/sorting molecules because the real heat.

Again, without an own experience how can you tell that there is a better consistent result in the traditional way while this way has already proven to give same results over and over again?

So that people like shops arround you does not have such a system is proove to you that it is crap? Sounds like no one arround me is driving a Ferrari so it must be crap.....
Yes, that is a statement you can rely on.......
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Old 01-03-2018, 02:58 AM
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Originally Posted by SlowLST2
One or two fellas calls this thing (basically) a glorified piston lapping tool and another fella says it breaks an engine in 95%. You guys are “in the know” if you will, yet there’s a bit of a difference in opinion as to what this thing is supposed to be doing and what it really does...

There is a much more consistent result amongst the traditional methods. So - I’ll drop the subject and move on because tradition hasn’t failed me - or anyone I know - in 20+ years of running methanol engines ranging from dirt cheap Chinese engines to fully CNC manufactured and hand fitted AAC high performance engines. Not a single engine manufacturer that I have ever dealt with or owned specified any other method to break in their engines other than the traditional methods. If this was so great of a method, everyone would be doing it.

Sorry to ruffle the feathers. I’m done and out. Happy racing!
It isn't a lapping tool, no lapping compound is used nor material is taken from the piston, it is shaped. It isn't opinion or differing things we are calling the machine, you are getting hung up on semantics when you already know what it does.

Tradition? I dare you to find ONE World A main finalist that break in engines using the traditional method. This has been a well kept secret since years, Pro engines are sent pre-run since a long time ago maybe before you ever broke in your first engine.

Of course no one specified, would you buy a 500$ engine that the manufacturer required a machine to break in?

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Old 01-03-2018, 04:06 AM
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You guys are right. I’m sorry.

(Sarcasm got a like!!)
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Last edited by RCTecher12; 01-04-2018 at 12:27 AM.
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Old 01-03-2018, 04:19 AM
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Originally Posted by SlowLST2
You guys are right. I’m sorry.
Don't be sorry, learnt something today?
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Old 01-03-2018, 04:24 AM
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Originally Posted by 30Tooth
Don't be sorry, learnt something today?
Yeah. There’s more than one way to skin a cat.

What would you do to break in an R/C Diesel engine that doesn’t use a glow plug using an oil bath parts mating process?
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Old 01-03-2018, 06:34 AM
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Originally Posted by SlowLST2
Yeah. There’s more than one way to skin a cat.

What would you do to break in an R/C Diesel engine that doesn’t use a glow plug using an oil bath parts mating process?
Every two stroke RC engine is diesel because it relies on compression to ignite the mix,not completely but almost. During the oil bath the glow plug is absent of the engine,no need to have high chamber pressure. Now your question, if it is an ABC ringless engine then break in normally, if it has rings then the oil has to be mineral or you have to add break in oil to seat the rings.
Hope it helps answering your question, the thing to remember is that the glow plug is absent during EBIS break in so if the engines are made using same materials there is no change in the procedure.
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Old 01-03-2018, 06:55 AM
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Good read, not on the drama but on the knowledge and breaking new barriers on these nitro engines.
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