Real talk. 4 stroke era is on the horizon.
03-01-2012, 09:28 AM
#1
Real talk. 4 stroke era is on the horizon.
Just wanted to spark up a thread on something I see every now and then pop up here and that's 4 strokes, every mororsport has gone it's direction towards them and when it happens the industry changes 100%, for rc I have to ask if being on the horizon of this era is necessary. I know some of you don't see it coming but there is no doubt companies out there developing and testing them for the future. And to me iv seen first hand what it can do to an industry that is so alive when all of a sudden the price of stuff goes up tremendously, right now people can hop into this at a relatively reasonable price and have fun. Once 4 strokes take over it will be a different game with different players and a much higher performing product, whether you can see that or not now oneday you will. My question is not specific on one thing as to whether we need it or not but as a question regarding everything that it will bring, good or bad. I'm sure buggies will be completely different and truggies will probably benifit big from the more powerful smoother engines. All in all the day we get 4 strokes that are capable of being neatly organized into an 1/8th scale will be the start of new machines, better buggies that are nothing like we have now. I for one have mixed emotions on the good outweighing the bad. Let's hear what you think.
03-01-2012, 09:37 AM
#2
That would be a huge change in the game. Not only would the overall performance be different but then of course like when my family raced AMA superbike, we'd have to map the fuel injection, get high octane fuel (r-tech was awesome!)
We wouldn't have to worry about changing plugs as much or cold starting. But and a big but...acceleration and overall fun is in 2-stroke.
Just my $.02
We wouldn't have to worry about changing plugs as much or cold starting. But and a big but...acceleration and overall fun is in 2-stroke.
Just my $.02
03-01-2012, 09:44 AM
#3
I don't see why there would be a need for it in R/C racing. 4 stroke equals more weight and less power at the same engine size.
03-01-2012, 09:49 AM
#4
I don't think you can get the performance from 4 stroke engines in RC scale. The many moving parts in a 4 stroke would get super small and I think there would problems w/ tolerancing and having a engine that is garbage, or costs $2k+.
Some things just don't scale down effectively. This is one of the reasons you don't see modern suspension technology (nitrogen charged IFP, shim stacks, adjusters, etc) in rc shocks, it can't be done effectively or practically.
4 stroke MX bikes are finally at the same or higher performance than 2 stroke, but it took a solid 13 years from when the YZF started it.
I would be all for a tiny little 4 stroke w/ massive low end grunt. Hopefully someone can make it happen!
Some things just don't scale down effectively. This is one of the reasons you don't see modern suspension technology (nitrogen charged IFP, shim stacks, adjusters, etc) in rc shocks, it can't be done effectively or practically.
4 stroke MX bikes are finally at the same or higher performance than 2 stroke, but it took a solid 13 years from when the YZF started it.
I would be all for a tiny little 4 stroke w/ massive low end grunt. Hopefully someone can make it happen!
03-01-2012, 10:05 AM
#6
So years of development to get the same horsepower and weigh 56 pounds more? Point proven. With the same amount of time in 2 stroke technology, where would they be now? More power and less weight. Remember, the switch to 4 stroke was not for power or reliabilty, it was lead by emmission regulations. I don't think R/C buggies fall under that catagory.
03-01-2012, 10:23 AM
#7
Yamahas production yz250f four stroke bike weighs in at 213. The 250f is made to compete against the 125 two smoke. And only weighs 18 pounds more and makes 13 more horse peek, and bout loads more torque.
The supercross class has a weight limit as 225 pounds. 250 two strokes were close in the low 230's. But the 450s are at the 240 range. The 450's also make close to 20 more peek horse power.
The reson 2 stroke deminished in motocross is the AMA set them up to fail. They made them go up against a bike with double the displacement. And once the formula engine teknology made it to the bikes, Yamaha YZ400. The two strokes didn't stand a chance. And once this happened the AMA neglected to change the rules to save the two strokes.
For 4 strokes to come to RC there would need to be a huge advantage over the 2 smokes we run now. We have light weight and high RPMs out of a simple motor. Why complicate it.
03-01-2012, 10:28 AM
#8
This is the biggest myth out there. See my last post on why two strokes really died. If it was true why does Yamaha, KTM, Huskivarna still produce two strokes? They are Avalible but no one wants a bike that's at such a disadvantage.
03-01-2012, 10:36 AM
#9
Maybe we should be discussing HPIs new gas 1/8th scale engine?
03-01-2012, 11:04 AM
#10
They are at a disadvantage at smaller cc's. Let the 2 strokes run the same cc's as the 4 strokes, then who is at a disadvantage? Not to mention that even at the increased displacement, the 2 stroke would pick up hardly any weight at all.
03-01-2012, 11:21 AM
#12
03-01-2012, 11:27 AM
#13
Well...just throwing my opinion in here. As an ex semi pro Motocrosser I started with 2 strokes and raced for well over 10 years on them...slowly but surely all dirtbikes went to full blown 4 strokes. I hated the transition. I enjoy the vicious high pitched sound of a 2 stroke and loved working the clutch to keep the power band peaked. Had I started on a 4 stroke and never driven a 2 stroke my whole life I would probably love it but I would not have realized what fun I was missing out on a 2 stroke.
4 strokes coming to RC Buggies/Truggies? that would be horrible to me. I love the high pitch sounds of the 2 strokes...the speed of 2 strokes...I could care less about the added torque of a 4 stroke I mean we have 2 stroke engines with in some cases too much torque.
Keep it 2 stroke...and scrap this whole electric thing once and for all. They are quite and lame and during a race it almost feels like I'm at a golf match as quiet as they are.
I know I will get flamed for this.
4 strokes coming to RC Buggies/Truggies? that would be horrible to me. I love the high pitch sounds of the 2 strokes...the speed of 2 strokes...I could care less about the added torque of a 4 stroke I mean we have 2 stroke engines with in some cases too much torque.
Keep it 2 stroke...and scrap this whole electric thing once and for all. They are quite and lame and during a race it almost feels like I'm at a golf match as quiet as they are.
I know I will get flamed for this.
03-01-2012, 12:23 PM
#14
Well...just throwing my opinion in here.
I love the high pitch sounds of the 2 strokes...the speed of 2 strokes...
Keep it 2 stroke...and scrap this whole electric thing once and for all. They are quite and lame and during a race it almost feels like I'm at a golf match as quiet as they are. I know I will get flamed for this.
I love the high pitch sounds of the 2 strokes...the speed of 2 strokes...
Keep it 2 stroke...and scrap this whole electric thing once and for all. They are quite and lame and during a race it almost feels like I'm at a golf match as quiet as they are.
I know I will get flamed for this.
03-01-2012, 12:43 PM
#15
Until some one comes up with a 4 stroke that can do 40,000 rpm, you'd have to run a 35 tooth clutch bell to achieve the same top speed. The 4 stroke would need about 2 1/2 times the torque to pull that gearing at the same acceleration rate as the current 2 strokes using normal gearing.