Clutch question for 8T 2.0....
07-23-2011, 10:18 AM
#1
Clutch question for 8T 2.0....
Looking for some advice on a clutch set-up for my Eight-T 2.0, and the track conditions where I race it. Just found out my RTR only came with a 2-shoe clutch!! That sucks. So here goes, I wanna give you all some track conditions, and let me know which direction I should go for a clutch set-up.
The track is hard packed dirt/clay, kinda rough, and gets dusty and loose as the race day progresses. Its got multiple jumps, and a few doubles and triples. A couple large jumps immediately after turns. Very technical track with lots of turns and large jumps. I wanna have some really good low end torque from the clutch for the large jumps right after turns, but not TOO aggressive for when the track gets a little looser and less traction as the day progresses. Anyone give me some tips as to get the happy medium in this situation as far as clutch set-up? Right now, I am also runing a 13/50 gear ratio, in case that helps. Thanks, guys.
The track is hard packed dirt/clay, kinda rough, and gets dusty and loose as the race day progresses. Its got multiple jumps, and a few doubles and triples. A couple large jumps immediately after turns. Very technical track with lots of turns and large jumps. I wanna have some really good low end torque from the clutch for the large jumps right after turns, but not TOO aggressive for when the track gets a little looser and less traction as the day progresses. Anyone give me some tips as to get the happy medium in this situation as far as clutch set-up? Right now, I am also runing a 13/50 gear ratio, in case that helps. Thanks, guys.
07-23-2011, 05:14 PM
#2
Need a little more info. You said you are running and RTR. I will take it you are running the Losi 454(DO the RTR's still come with these Or is it the Losi version Nitrotec?) motor? If so then you might be slightly under powered in the torque department. Not 100% sure but I think those motors are not the best in the low RPM. If I am wrong, I am sorry. What kind of pipe, fuel, tires, traction you are getting, stuff like that.
But as far as a good clutch set up goes....
2 alluminum shoes with gold springs and 2 composite shoes with green springs.
I have run this set up all year and have not had a problem clearing any jump, even after a tight corner. But I run a modded B5 that has massive amounts of torque down low.
This is a goos basic set-up. You can experiment with different soes and springs until you find "YOUR" ultimate clutch set up. Remeber, what works for one person doesnt work for every body
! Have fun.
But as far as a good clutch set up goes....
2 alluminum shoes with gold springs and 2 composite shoes with green springs.
I have run this set up all year and have not had a problem clearing any jump, even after a tight corner. But I run a modded B5 that has massive amounts of torque down low.
This is a goos basic set-up. You can experiment with different soes and springs until you find "YOUR" ultimate clutch set up. Remeber, what works for one person doesnt work for every body
! Have fun.
07-23-2011, 05:43 PM
#3
Thanks, Jerm. Well, let me see what else I can tell you. I'm running the stock pipe still, Byron Race Gen2 30% fuel, JConcepts Crosshair tires. It just seemed that I was not getting great traction my last race day. And you are right, I am running the 454, and it doesnt have the best low end torque. But there have to be some ways to improve the performance with what torque its providing me? Thats why I wonder if a better clutch set-up might help a little.
I was also wrong about my clutch set-up (stock). It is 2 blue aluminum, and 2 silver aluminum shoes, with 2 silver and 2 gold springs. What does that tell ya, if anything, bud?
Let me know if this gives you a little more to go on with as far as giving me a little more advice. Thanks again, man!
I was also wrong about my clutch set-up (stock). It is 2 blue aluminum, and 2 silver aluminum shoes, with 2 silver and 2 gold springs. What does that tell ya, if anything, bud?
Let me know if this gives you a little more to go on with as far as giving me a little more advice. Thanks again, man!
07-23-2011, 08:38 PM
#4
The 2 silver and 2 gold spring set up is what I run on high traction tracks. The shoes that you are running now are made in different weight and hardnesses. The blue is a soft light shoe ( hopefully its the one with the gold springs) and the silver is a medium to hard and heavier shoe ( hopefully with the silver springs). I sounds like you have a good clutch set-up already and may need to look at other tuning options to help with your situation. But before we get to that, how do the shoes look? Do you have burrs on the edges? If they do, you need to file them off. And when you use a finger nail to pull the shoes away from the flywheel ( kind of like you are manualy engaging them), are the shoes snapping back into place and not really weak. That checks to make sure the springs and shoes move smoothly. Also the surface of the shoe where it makes contact to the clutch bell. make sure it is smooth and the bell too on the inside.
I am not sure what the stock pipe is on the Losi RTR and that could be a big factor. Different pipes give your engine, and overall your car, different caricharistics. A low range pipe (JP-1, RE10, 2013) does just that. It helps in the low ranges of RPM. High range pipes ( JP-3, RE11, 2058) do the high rpms.
Now to driving. When you are coming out of a corner to a difficult jump section, are you almost at a stop? Have you tried to adjust your driving line to carry more corner speed? If you have adjusted your line and are still having problem we need to look at the car set up. Suspension, Diffs ( a big one for acceleration) stuff like that.
I am not sure what the stock pipe is on the Losi RTR and that could be a big factor. Different pipes give your engine, and overall your car, different caricharistics. A low range pipe (JP-1, RE10, 2013) does just that. It helps in the low ranges of RPM. High range pipes ( JP-3, RE11, 2058) do the high rpms.
Now to driving. When you are coming out of a corner to a difficult jump section, are you almost at a stop? Have you tried to adjust your driving line to carry more corner speed? If you have adjusted your line and are still having problem we need to look at the car set up. Suspension, Diffs ( a big one for acceleration) stuff like that.
07-24-2011, 05:58 AM
#5
Wow, Jerm.....you are a wealth of knowledge! lol Thanks a lot man! If you don't mind, I'd like to keep you going!
Its actually the other way around on my clutch: silver springs on blue shoes, and gold springs on silver shoes. Were you saying that it should be the other way around? The shoes look decent, I've only done a break-in, about 7 5-minute qualifying heats, and 2 mains (half an hour each). And some practice laps as well. I've heard there is a measurement you can take with a caliper from the outside of two opposite shoes, and there is a measurement that if the distance is greater than this number, they are still good. Ever heard of that? I checked the springs, they are in good working order.
While I am on the subject, when I opened up my clutch bell, both of my clutch bearings were blown out. I will check the play when I reassemble, but I run 2 shims on the inside, and 3 shims on the outside of the clutch bell. Any other method to stop from blowing these bearings out?
As for the pipe, it is the stock. It is a sport pipe, I believe, (part # LOSB5064) and on the losi website, is called MUG. So, I can assume it isn't a great pipe. Any suggestions?
lol, Sorry, so long. Here is the last of what you were asking: my suspension set-up. I run 35wt with black springs in front, 30wt with grey springs in rear. Outermost position on rear shock tower, and middle on front shock tower. As far as diffs, I believe 7000 wt in front, 10000wt in middle, and 2000wt in rear. Did you mean something else as far as tuning diffs other than the weight of the oil?
Again, thanks so much man. Hard to find this good of help sometime. Hopefully this paints an even better picture for you, and you can steer me in the better direction. Let me know what you think, bud!
Chad
Its actually the other way around on my clutch: silver springs on blue shoes, and gold springs on silver shoes. Were you saying that it should be the other way around? The shoes look decent, I've only done a break-in, about 7 5-minute qualifying heats, and 2 mains (half an hour each). And some practice laps as well. I've heard there is a measurement you can take with a caliper from the outside of two opposite shoes, and there is a measurement that if the distance is greater than this number, they are still good. Ever heard of that? I checked the springs, they are in good working order.
While I am on the subject, when I opened up my clutch bell, both of my clutch bearings were blown out. I will check the play when I reassemble, but I run 2 shims on the inside, and 3 shims on the outside of the clutch bell. Any other method to stop from blowing these bearings out?
As for the pipe, it is the stock. It is a sport pipe, I believe, (part # LOSB5064) and on the losi website, is called MUG. So, I can assume it isn't a great pipe. Any suggestions?
lol, Sorry, so long. Here is the last of what you were asking: my suspension set-up. I run 35wt with black springs in front, 30wt with grey springs in rear. Outermost position on rear shock tower, and middle on front shock tower. As far as diffs, I believe 7000 wt in front, 10000wt in middle, and 2000wt in rear. Did you mean something else as far as tuning diffs other than the weight of the oil?
Again, thanks so much man. Hard to find this good of help sometime. Hopefully this paints an even better picture for you, and you can steer me in the better direction. Let me know what you think, bud!
Chad
07-24-2011, 05:11 PM
#6
First things first. pull the clutch apart and clean the burrs, rub the contact surface against some semi-fine sand paper(250 grit or higher) on the shoes. Use some Scotchbrite on the inside of the clutch bell and then spray them off with motor wash or brake cleaner. after they are clean, go ahead and reassemble your clutch. Gold springs on the blue shoes and silver springs on the silver shoes.
Now that the clutch is back together, lets set up the play on the bell. the number of shims is not as important as how it is shimmed. I have changed between 2 different bells and have had to remove a shim in front and in the rear. Its all about feeling and it will come with time.
First put a new set of bearings in. You can change them every race day, or clean and oil them and get 2 or more race days out of a set. I have seen 3 full race days on a set but have seen them destroyed after a 5 minute heat too. The shimming, clutch set-up, amount of traction all has a part in how long they will last.
You want you clutch bell to sit as close to the flywheel as it can WITHOUT hitting it. This way you get all the surface of the shoes against the bell. Add or remove shims untill it is good there.
Then add or remove shims to the front until there is a slight amount of play in the clutch bell. And when I say slight, I mean slight. When you check for the play, make sure you tighten down the screw all the way so you get a good reading. Too much play is just as bad as no play at all. As the motor and clutch heat up, things start to expand. If they dont have any room to expand, they start to bind and destroy themselves ( bearings, shoes, bells, and flywheels). Then you are good to go.
As far as the mesument on shoes, the is. I cant remember off the top of my head what it was. Because I run the Losi Long Life shoes, they have a little dot on the shoe. As soon as it wears to that mark, i chuck em and put new shoes in. Check the losi web site, or ask in the 8T 2.0 section. someone should be able to give you that answer. SO that should help with the clutch issues hopfully.
As far as the pipe goes, I would look at getting an new or used one that is spacific for bottom ends. I will help out a lot. this could be more of the problem than the clutch. New ones can be had for as low as $40 and used about the same all the way to $150. The nice thing is, pipes are not spasific to motors. I have run the same pipe on the last 3 motors in my truck. It doesnt look the best but she works like a new one. I cant see spending an extra $90 on a pipe every motor.
As far as your set up is, it seems really close to mine. Have you tried running the Race Roller set up ( very good starting point for a lot of people) or any of the Pro guy's set ups (Some times they have shock and camber link positions for tight tracks). Check out Losi's web site. Any more questions, just ask. Pm me if feel like it.
Now that the clutch is back together, lets set up the play on the bell. the number of shims is not as important as how it is shimmed. I have changed between 2 different bells and have had to remove a shim in front and in the rear. Its all about feeling and it will come with time.
First put a new set of bearings in. You can change them every race day, or clean and oil them and get 2 or more race days out of a set. I have seen 3 full race days on a set but have seen them destroyed after a 5 minute heat too. The shimming, clutch set-up, amount of traction all has a part in how long they will last.
You want you clutch bell to sit as close to the flywheel as it can WITHOUT hitting it. This way you get all the surface of the shoes against the bell. Add or remove shims untill it is good there.
Then add or remove shims to the front until there is a slight amount of play in the clutch bell. And when I say slight, I mean slight. When you check for the play, make sure you tighten down the screw all the way so you get a good reading. Too much play is just as bad as no play at all. As the motor and clutch heat up, things start to expand. If they dont have any room to expand, they start to bind and destroy themselves ( bearings, shoes, bells, and flywheels). Then you are good to go.
As far as the mesument on shoes, the is. I cant remember off the top of my head what it was. Because I run the Losi Long Life shoes, they have a little dot on the shoe. As soon as it wears to that mark, i chuck em and put new shoes in. Check the losi web site, or ask in the 8T 2.0 section. someone should be able to give you that answer. SO that should help with the clutch issues hopfully.
As far as the pipe goes, I would look at getting an new or used one that is spacific for bottom ends. I will help out a lot. this could be more of the problem than the clutch. New ones can be had for as low as $40 and used about the same all the way to $150. The nice thing is, pipes are not spasific to motors. I have run the same pipe on the last 3 motors in my truck. It doesnt look the best but she works like a new one. I cant see spending an extra $90 on a pipe every motor.
As far as your set up is, it seems really close to mine. Have you tried running the Race Roller set up ( very good starting point for a lot of people) or any of the Pro guy's set ups (Some times they have shock and camber link positions for tight tracks). Check out Losi's web site. Any more questions, just ask. Pm me if feel like it.
Last edited by Jerm13; 07-24-2011 at 05:13 PM. Reason: i cant spell!
07-30-2011, 12:33 PM
#7
Hey Jerm, I've now started getting my clutch torn apart and am filing off the burrs. You mentioned that there are wear indicators on the shoes, the little holes in the clutch shoe. So if the hole is still visible, does that mean that the shoes are still good, or is it when the hole is no longer visible that they are worn? You never really specified in your last reply as to which way around it was.
Secondly, I went and purchased a set of Losi green clutch springs to see if I could get a little better response from my clutch as I run a real tight technical track. So I plan on running 2 golds and 2 greens. What do you think about this? And if you remember, I had the 2 hardened aluminum silver shoes, and two lightweight blue shoes in my clutch now. I plan on running same clutch shoes, but changing the silvers out for green. If you remember, you told me that I had the wrong spring on wrong clutch shoes, (gold on silver shoe, and silver on blue shoe.) What will it do to my clutch if I switch it to the way you said it should be, and what will me putting on greens instead of silver do? Also, which shoes should I put the greens on? I guess clutches are the thing I'm not totally good with understanding yet, becuase there are SO many combinations and effects, its hard to keep track of them all and what they actually do. Know anywhere online that will explain the clutch combinations in depth?
Thanks again, buddy! I'm almost done with the whole clutch thing. Just gonna wait to hear back from you on these last questions, reassemble, and give 'er a whirl at the track!
Secondly, I went and purchased a set of Losi green clutch springs to see if I could get a little better response from my clutch as I run a real tight technical track. So I plan on running 2 golds and 2 greens. What do you think about this? And if you remember, I had the 2 hardened aluminum silver shoes, and two lightweight blue shoes in my clutch now. I plan on running same clutch shoes, but changing the silvers out for green. If you remember, you told me that I had the wrong spring on wrong clutch shoes, (gold on silver shoe, and silver on blue shoe.) What will it do to my clutch if I switch it to the way you said it should be, and what will me putting on greens instead of silver do? Also, which shoes should I put the greens on? I guess clutches are the thing I'm not totally good with understanding yet, becuase there are SO many combinations and effects, its hard to keep track of them all and what they actually do. Know anywhere online that will explain the clutch combinations in depth?
Thanks again, buddy! I'm almost done with the whole clutch thing. Just gonna wait to hear back from you on these last questions, reassemble, and give 'er a whirl at the track!
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