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"the engine break in bible"

Old 09-16-2016, 02:54 AM
  #481  
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Default At the end of the day...

...There are many ways to do the breakin as drivers are in the World
I have to do my first breakin for Alpha engine, and Mr. Lutz says the following https://youtu.be/9GwkOiYHGOs
So, 10 tanks doing passes plus 10 tanks doing laps.
Assuming this is not the very best way to do the breakin I suposse works well. At least it is an easy way to do it for newbies like me. Isn't it?
Thanks
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Old 12-08-2016, 08:06 PM
  #482  
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I feel like the longer you take to break in you're engine the better. As long as you always always pre-heat you're engine to 200 degrees first you're good. In fact, i use a heat gun every single time i start all of my engines. i have race engines that go 10 gallons, however the highest temp i ever let them reach is 245. For all the Novarossi engines ive owned, it seems like a full gallon is the sweet spot for break in. I usually pre-heat to 200, and idle a full tank, let it cool down and repeat 2 more times. then i run 2 tanks quarter throttle, 2 tanks half throttle passes, 2 tanks 3 quarter throttle passes, and 2 tanks full throttle passes. Of course always letting it cool down and then pre-heating between every tank. i truly feel like its the best way Take you're time with them, make sure you use good fuel and these mills can almost literally last forever. I just cant stress how important it is to pre-heat these things, they are so small, temperamental and the tolerances are so high that you really shouldent ever ever do a cold start. sure you can, but every time you start one below 170 degress, you can bet you're subtracting life from the engine every time.
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Old 12-12-2016, 06:52 AM
  #483  
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Is a complete new break in required after a piston/sleeve change?
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Old 12-14-2016, 03:20 PM
  #484  
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YES, a new piston and sleeve is basically like having a completely new engine! do you'reself a favor and pre-heat that thing to at least 180 degrees before turning it over, especially if you are running the same rod. regardless, you should always pre-heat these engines before starting them. surely there are guys that start them cold and ring them right out....wel....they just wont last as long
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Old 01-18-2017, 12:40 PM
  #485  
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What is the best way to breaking in a Picco V1?
Have broken in FX and REDS before.
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Old 03-17-2017, 01:46 PM
  #486  
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Does this method apply to "ALL" nitro engines or are there some engines / manufacturers where the results may differ?
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Old 03-29-2017, 12:04 AM
  #487  
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So I've read everything I could read while not having my motor yet. I am new to nitro. I read this thread, the bess thread, paris sites on breaking in engines. My questions are:
1. Basically the first time you fire it up. Let it idle a bit to warm up on the box. Then throw it on the ground with short runs 3 minish. DO this for 15 minuteish.. This equals about 2-3 tanks? and am I slowly(1-2hrs at a time) leaning out the HSN every time I fire it up after letting it compeletly cool off between runs? or leave the settings alone? temps in the 200ish range..

2. The second set running 3-5 min runs for a total of 30 mins getting up to 1/2 throttle.. am I still attempting to lean the HSN (still lots of smoke)? temps not to exceed the 200ish range?

3. Now we are at about 6 tanks? I can now run it on the track for short burst full throttle for a few seconds...still leaning it out a bit? 200ish range?

4.The manual for my engine pretty much says by 1liter I could be close to race tune? That's just over a 1/2 gallon. From what I read it the suggestion is to not race it or not run it hard until at least a gallon is ran through it?

TIA!!
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Old 03-31-2017, 06:44 PM
  #488  
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Nitro noob here:

I'm using a standard automotive IR temp gun to measure repeatedly down the center of the head (pointed at the plug) and occasionally seeing temps up to 300 degrees now that my (alpha lutz) engine is a bit broken in and I can whip it around the yard and make full throttle passes. It seems to run strong without complaint and has plenty of smoke at all throttle settings without running out. I've read some people say their Alphas run hot, some say 250s, some say 280s, some say don't worry about it if it works.

Is this a measurement error? Am I aiming incorrectly or not waiting long enough after a pass (15 seconds or so) to take the reading?
Is this the result of me not being on a track and just doing passes across a grass field meaning too much high throttle?
Is it not even a problem because the engine seems to run well?
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Old 03-31-2017, 07:14 PM
  #489  
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You can't take a reading with an IR thermometer that will accidentally be too high. The cylinder-head is the hottest thing anywhere near the IR thermometer. So no, you're not making a mistake. And it is perfectly valid to take a reading immediately after a pass, because how else are you going to know what the engine's peak temperature is? It's peak temperatures that cause damage.

Technically speaking, it's only too hot if the carburetor struggles to deliver fuel properly because the fuel is boiling inside the feed, or if the engine struggles to get up to operating temperature because it can't seal well enough to get proper combustion when the engine is cold. The hotter an engine runs, the more the sides of the piston will wear-down, and the looser the fit will be when the engine is cold, but if you're starting with a super-tight race-grade engine you'll probably never notice.

Personally I wouldn't want my engines to run anywhere near 300F -- I aim for 230-250F peak -- but if your engine runs at 300F and it works fine for months or years before needing a rebuild, then it doesn't matter what the "bible" says.
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Old 04-01-2017, 12:16 AM
  #490  
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Originally Posted by David Bump
I feel like the longer you take to break in you're engine the better. As long as you always always pre-heat you're engine to 200 degrees first you're good. In fact, i use a heat gun every single time i start all of my engines. i have race engines that go 10 gallons, however the highest temp i ever let them reach is 245. For all the Novarossi engines ive owned, it seems like a full gallon is the sweet spot for break in. I usually pre-heat to 200, and idle a full tank, let it cool down and repeat 2 more times. then i run 2 tanks quarter throttle, 2 tanks half throttle passes, 2 tanks 3 quarter throttle passes, and 2 tanks full throttle passes. Of course always letting it cool down and then pre-heating between every tank. i truly feel like its the best way Take you're time with them, make sure you use good fuel and these mills can almost literally last forever. I just cant stress how important it is to pre-heat these things, they are so small, temperamental and the tolerances are so high that you really shouldent ever ever do a cold start. sure you can, but every time you start one below 170 degress, you can bet you're subtracting life from the engine every time.
You're subtracting life from the engine every time you run it at all. For maximum lifetime you should leave it in the box it came in.

Seriously though, assuming you're running fuel that has a reasonable oil content, the engine should survive a minute or so near ambient temperature just fine. I don't think I've ever seen one of my engines stay below 170F for longer than that, even if I just left it idling after starting it. I just bought a 300W heat gun from Radio Shack and I plan to use it the next time I have to start a brand-new engine, but I disagree that you need to use a heat gun every time you start the engine no matter what. The closest I get to preheating any of my engines is, in the winter, I start the engine on my cold-weather truck immediately after taking it outside, so the engine is starting from 70F instead of 20F. If you've broken-in the engine "properly" (now there's a loaded word), it can withstand running within a wide range of temperatures, from ambient up to whatever you consider "normal operating temperature" to be. To be fair, the wider that range is, the worse the engine will run until it warms up fully, because the piston will seal worse at ambient temperature if it's broken-in to run really hot. So yeah, pre-heating before each run would allow you to run an engine hotter without poor performance at the beginning of the run, but why would you want your engine to run really hot in the first place? That just makes more work and you end up with an engine that's a diva -- it will refuse to do its job unless you pamper it first. Better to tune it to run well at a reasonable temperature, I think -- but maybe I'm not looking at it from the "performance at any cost" perspective of a racer.

I try to run my engines somewhere around 180F above ambient, because the RTR-grade engines I use seem to tolerate that range rather well -- they only bog-down a little bit for the first 30 seconds or so, and after that they're warmed-up enough to run well. That works out to a peak temperature of about 200-230F for my winter engine, and a peak temperature of about 240-270F for my other engines. How did I arrive at this 180F range of operating temperatures? Admittedly I didn't put any forethought into it, I just aimed for 250F because that's what various "tuning bibles" suggested, then over time I realized my engines worked better if I adjusted the peak running temperature to the weather conditions. That's no surprise since the pistons don't have rings and rely entirely on thermal expansion to achieve a proper combustion seal, but hey, some bits of wisdom only sink-in through experience.

My RTR-grade engines seem to tolerate a 30F range of *peak* operating temperatures rather well with the "however long it takes" break-in method I use. I run a new engine super-rich for the first tank to flush out debris, then I tune for 200F on the second tank, then 205F, then 210F, etc. up to ~240F, and continue monitoring for temperature spikes until I stop seeing them happen anymore. At that point I know the engine is well and truly broken-in and no longer generating significant heat from internal friction. 30F is a wide enough range of peak operating temperatures that I can get away with checking the engine temperature about 3 times per run instead of more often, once the engine is broken-in. I would expect a race-grade engine would tolerate similar running parameters despite their tighter tolerances, because they're also made from more durable alloys.

Last edited by fyrstormer; 04-01-2017 at 12:33 AM.
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Old 04-01-2017, 05:21 PM
  #491  
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Originally Posted by fyrstormer
You can't take a reading with an IR thermometer that will accidentally be too high. The cylinder-head is the hottest thing anywhere near the IR thermometer. So no, you're not making a mistake. And it is perfectly valid to take a reading immediately after a pass, because how else are you going to know what the engine's peak temperature is? It's peak temperatures that cause damage.

Technically speaking, it's only too hot if the carburetor struggles to deliver fuel properly because the fuel is boiling inside the feed, or if the engine struggles to get up to operating temperature because it can't seal well enough to get proper combustion when the engine is cold. The hotter an engine runs, the more the sides of the piston will wear-down, and the looser the fit will be when the engine is cold, but if you're starting with a super-tight race-grade engine you'll probably never notice.

Personally I wouldn't want my engines to run anywhere near 300F -- I aim for 230-250F peak -- but if your engine runs at 300F and it works fine for months or years before needing a rebuild, then it doesn't matter what the "bible" says.
Thanks for the info! I took the car (RC8B3 I bought used) out to the parking lot today for its second day of testing. The only change from the first was that I narrowed down my idle gap a small bit since it seemed too large. After getting the engine up to temp and making a few small adjustments (maybe ~2 hrs on both needles) it seems to run okay. Curiously what was a 300f peak yesterday in the grass is about a 240-250 peak today on the asphalt.

My tanks are lasting about 10 mins of mixed throttle passes like this, the throttle response feels okay though I don't really notice a power difference between 2/3 throttle and full throttle. The idle seems a tad high and upon stop it will settle down lower after 15-20 seconds. If I let it sit at a stop for 10 seconds then go WOT I get a thick smoke puff after the first few feet of acceleration and no bogging/hesitation, though I think at higher RPMs it may have a bit more power to give up. Smoke is hard to see on asphalt but it's still smoking at the end of straights and coming out of the turns:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d886BOadNfs

Last edited by altitudelow; 04-01-2017 at 05:47 PM.
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Old 06-13-2017, 11:07 AM
  #492  
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@altitudelow

Looks like it is coming along, how is it now? Still hot?

Check out the car at the end of this vid, this is how it should be.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUBC...sionateaboutRC

Can you post your current needle settings and what stock settings are? My current guess is that your top end will still need to be leaned out a bit. However, your bottom end currently sounds quite lean, unless you have your idle screw open a lot. Does it ever idle down like in the above mentioned video?
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Old 06-14-2017, 12:55 AM
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Originally Posted by altitudelow
Curiously what was a 300f peak yesterday in the grass is about a 240-250 peak today on the asphalt.
That's not at all surprising. Running in grass adds a significant amount of drag at all times, so the engine has to work harder to get the vehicle moving, and continue working harder to keep it moving. That continuously higher workload adds up to significantly higher running temperatures by the end of the run.

Originally Posted by altitudelow
My tanks are lasting about 10 mins of mixed throttle passes like this, the throttle response feels okay though I don't really notice a power difference between 2/3 throttle and full throttle. The idle seems a tad high and upon stop it will settle down lower after 15-20 seconds. If I let it sit at a stop for 10 seconds then go WOT I get a thick smoke puff after the first few feet of acceleration and no bogging/hesitation, though I think at higher RPMs it may have a bit more power to give up. Smoke is hard to see on asphalt but it's still smoking at the end of straights and coming out of the turns.
Based on that description, the LSN is too lean (it should idle-down in 5 seconds or less) and the HSN is a little richer than ideal. The idle gap is probably slightly too large too, but it wouldn't make sense to adjust that until you get the HSN and LSN dialed-in. You ought to be able to let the engine idle for a couple minutes before it hesitates and blows a cloud of smoke the next time you hit the throttle. However, since the engine is running in the 250-300F range, I wouldn't lean-out the HSN any more than you already have until the engine starts running cooler from continued break-in or unless the hesitation gets noticeably worse. If you're going to run in grass frequently, you'll just have to accept that the engine won't be able to make peak power because it needs to run slightly rich to keep from overheating.
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Old 06-16-2017, 11:34 AM
  #494  
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So the method in the traxxas manual is ok to use? I am getting my first nitro car and I really dont want to mess anything up...
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Old 06-16-2017, 11:47 AM
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I'd say with your first nitro, stick to the manual. You then have step by step instructions, and there is no guess work. As you progress to other vehicles and new engines, you can modify the process to your liking.
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