R/C Tech Forums - Nitro content adaption to EU Law

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Nitro content adaption to EU Law

Hi Nitro Spezialist out there.
now in 2022 we have to adapt our engines to 12% nitromethane content per volume in europe.
what are your opinion about this,
is a change in shimming enough or have we to change the combustion chamber?
Or even other modifications are needed?

Funny thing is that most offroad drivers complain about the rule while we onroad drivrs have no issue with 16%, Even our older 25% shimmed engines do run fine on 16%. But yes, if you want the most out of it then taking out an 0.1mm shim is the best thing to do. Getting special 16% buttonheads is also an option but with some engines it is not always a direct fit.

And yeas, the EU is talking about 16% by weight and not by volume making it arround 12%

You all might wanna move to Turkey as we don't have any regulation of such yet. :sweat: :ha:

Good luck racing with 12% nitro.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roelof (Post 15743082)

And yeas, the EU is talking about 16% by weight and not by volume making it arround 12%

Well, looking at a bit of EFRA's proposal:

Quote:

Please, read this: “The content of nitromethane in blends with methanol and oil(s) intended for use as fuels for model vehicles is often given in percent by volume. It is difficult in practice to derive the corresponding content of nitromethane in percent by weight, since necessary parameters for the conversion are in most cases not known. Therefore, for the purpose of Regulation (EU) 2019/1148, fuel blends containing methanol, nitromethane and oil(s), intended for use in model vehicles and with not more than 12 percent nitromethane by volume, may be regarded as containing not more than 16 percent nitromethane by weight.”

Please, do note that unfortunately they are saying we will only be able to race with 12% fuel in volume.

Out of the Technical reports we do have, this “guideline” is non correct. It is wrong.

From a Fuel Producer: “it is known that the specific weight of technical nitromethane is 1,123 (there is a minimal ±), so to say that the parameters needed for conversion are not known is a complete nonsense.

The 16% by weight equals to a 14.248% by volume, but never a 12 % by volume. They're using a specific weight of 1.33 which is not correct, the right figure is 1.123 (no-one knows where they got it that 1.33 from).

So yea, even on-road will be affected by this change. Not by a lot, but all fuel across all classes will change with this. The scariest part though is that two contradicting numbers are used synonymously...

I don't know how much you guys struggle with cooling, but it was one of the main reasons none of my local guys went under 20% nitro even though there are many benefits in doing so (the difference in power is negligible while fuel economy goes up). In the US with their 30% blends it was possible to run engines with LCG heads in buggys which were overheating here even with only a 5% difference in Nitro.

Just to clarify this.
I am not asking for a easy way to get my muscles back.
I want to talk about general functionality of the engines to keep nitro off-road a great experience.
As mentioned: cooling or idle - transition- midrange quality etc

I see racer running into tuning troubles even with formidable OS engines and expensive 25% nitrofuel
So im worried ab bit the engines become to difficult to tune for the beginners.

Yes, I know. It wil be very hard to convince the EU of that problem so I think the fuels will stay (illegal) at 16% by volume. And if not, we will adapt, no problem there. In the past we all have breaked in our engines with just 5 or 10% nitro and raced with the left over fuel.

Yes, the temperature with 16% did raise something but not important, the current high timed engines do get hotter than the stock and older ones, if I modify a 35plus21 then the temperature has raised with 10 to 20 degrees celcius and my engines have no problem with that.
Performance wise you can feel a milder throttle reaction but when everyone has that it is no issue. And in the onroad still new laprecords are made on just 16%

And to be honest, 16% was in the onroad 25% era already well used to get a better milage if it could not be done with 25%

Where did you hear about that Law?
I am really conserned now..
Will it take effect in all EU countries?

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeorgeCk (Post 15743366)

Where did you hear about that Law?

Search for EU regulation 2019/1148, it's really well hidden in there. Here is the link to the EFRA statement.

And yes, all EU countries are affected.

Just curious. Why the law. What is it trying to do?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silverbullet555 (Post 15743383)

Just curious. Why the law. What is it trying to do?

Anti-terror, the blanket reason that's always used to limit the freedom of citiziens.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kawasaki161 (Post 15743374)

Search for EU regulation 2019/1148, it's really well hidden in there. Here is the link to the EFRA statement.

And yes, all EU countries are affected.

so basically once they figure the licensing crap out you will still be able to use fuel higher than 16%.. but lets see what the rules are for a license approval process.. probably a background check and any other bs thing to try and stop people from enjoying the hobby.. but yes all countries need to stay safe from terrorists or harmful people. we have enough bs in the hobby and we are losing people interested in rc racing.. hope the hobby will survive many many years to come.

Pure nitro seems to be the best stuff to make small powerful bombs so it will be more difficult to get it and very difficult to filter out from fuel.
Weird enough nitro is also used as a cleaning fluid and let there b many muslims be active in the cleaning service. Not that there has to be a link but.....

But again, we with onroad have no issue with running 16% so I will expect the same no problems with you offroad guys.

Regarding the licence, I think it will be hard to get one as a driver.

Yes but off road engines are designed to run on 25%.. What should we do to make them run properly?

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeorgeCk (Post 15743497)

Yes but off road engines are designed to run on 25%.. What should we do to make them run properly?

Why do you think the engine is designed? The engine can be set to all kind of nitrocontent. It is all about ignition timing of the self combustion. The moment of ignition is set by nitro content, compression, glowplug number and outside temperature.

Our engines will run fine on 16% but there will be a loss on the bottom power (for what it is worth), you can correct that by taking out 0.1mm of headshim and from there you will be quickly used to the very slight power loss. (if you can feel it at all)