timjs

I'd wager that 95% of drivers couldn't tell you if you put 16% or 30% in their tank.

kawasaki161

I highly doubt that there will be a way to get a license for hobby use in most countries (every country has to implement their own ruling for this btw). The sad truth is that the miniscule nitro part of the already small hobby will not be able to have much of an impact, if any.
A good, robust, system to get a license for it would be great. But I haven't even seen a single suggestion for one yet, so don't hold your breath.
It's already a miracle that they didn't outright ban our fuel. Don't worry though, give it another year or two and they'll also cut methanol out of the equation so we'll have to run ethanol.

​​​​​​​
Depends on a few factors, you'll definitely be able to tell with those LCG buggy engines because they will just overheat unless you run them incredibly rich.
Besides that we have yet another regulation that will have exactly zero impact on the thing it's meant for, gotta love politics.

J.Whiting

iTrader: (63)

i get it guys but lets see how it plays out.. i would think a license could be obtained with a few restrictions. like amount purchased at 1 time or total quantity to have in possession. i think like max of 2 gallons at a time and no more than 5 gallons in a month span.. just putting ideas out.. isnt that how things start? but getting a bunch of ideas out there to see what will work best? i hope they can figure something out to all the over seas guys and gals can race as normal..

and on the 16% over 25% i would say bottom end it big in offroad racing.. onroad is about flow and rpms.. onroad you need torque but nothing like offroad does in my opinion.. and yes i have raced onroad.. gearing can be changed in onroad easier than offroad in my opinion.. not trying to start anything but just how i see things. either way they need to come up with a good solution for the European guys..

WOFTAM

Here in Sweden will will still be allowed to run 25%, but we will need to fill in a form and state why we need the fuel, how much we will need and how it will be stored , ie safely locked away.
still unsure how it will work, but more information will come soon.
I will be ok for this season and maybe the next, as I bought 80lt of 25% in November.

kawasaki161

Oh how much I'd love if it worked like that, sadly nobody who has a say in this matter is listening at the moment. As it stands right now, we have politicians that have absolutely no idea about what they're doing making up factually wrong laws (the part with the specific weight being wrong) while providing close to zero communication, not even with fuel manufacturers. I don't know how the status of this is in other countries and can only report on what I was able to dig up on the german side of the story but it's not looking good at all.

The current state is:
After the 1st of February it won't be possible for people without a license (which you can't obtain for hobby use as of right now(edit: except for Sweden I guess), non-commercial licenses handed out before this change cease to be valid) to buy fuel with more than 12% nitro by volume, so less than 16% by weight. One year after that it'll be also illegal to own such fuel.
What can we do? Well, contact your politicians (they won't answer, I tried) and make them aware of the situation. Also contact all hobby shops in your area as well as any and every RC manufacturer or organization who still has an ounce of their business in the nitro world and ask them to also create pressure on the politicians. It probably won't change anything but at least you can feel like you tried.



To at least stay somewhat on-topic. As Roelof already mentioned, you'll have to lower the head gap (effectively increasing the compression ratio) and probably also play around with glow plugs a bit. The 0.1mm he mentioned are a good rule of thumb but it'll be different for every engine, you could contact the manufacturer and ask what nitro content the stock spacing was designed for and if they have any suggestions. Also, temp your engine even more regularly than you already did, it will run hotter.

Roelof

Face it, does this look slow and less powerful running on 16%?

kawasaki161

Nope, but that's not the point. If it was EFRA coming out and saying that all nitro classes would now run 16% that'd be fine, but looking at their statement that's clearly not what they want.
Just like basically everything in politics nowadays this is a boiling frog situation. First they stopped allowing private entities to buy pure nitro, then the limit went to 25% for our fuel, now it's going to less than 16%, next they'll restrict Methanol (not joking btw, it's more or less confirmed), after that they might outright ban nitro fuel. If we don't get louder each step it won't stop.

To re-iterate: I don't care about racing going to <16%, I do care about factual errors in the law and not being allowed to buy 25% because of some bs regulations and politicians being too lazy to come up with a good way to get a license for it before banning it.

GeorgeCk

Those are good news!!
​​When the time comes I will do so!
For now I will stock as much 25% as I can!!

timjs

Care to elaborate?

Sir 51D3WAYS

'kin 'ell that's quick.

Wonder why the plane/heli guys run 50% or even 60% then? And why can't cars run on 60% nitro?

Silverbullet555

iTrader: (16)

Gotcha. The catchall of BS.

Roelof

That is a known problem with governments standing on a far distance of what is happening and we are too small to make a stand.
The 16% in the 1/8 onroad was an EFRA rule to lower the noise. Never have seen any noise level reports if it does make a difference but with people at the EFRA meeting who hardly understand English or are not known or even have no experience with the technology do say yes with easy because the EFRA knows so.... And yes, I have runned 16% before w/o any issues while many people w/o any experience dd whine about the los of power. Finally we all adapt the 16% w/o any problems.
Not sure about banning Methanol but maybe Ethanol can be the new fuel because it is also pushed as bio fuel (mixed with gasoline)

Do they?


Over here these guys run just 20% oil and 80% methanol, NO NITRO!

kawasaki161

Didn't ask for the EU ruling (if there is any yet) as the core of the conversation was about Nitro content but I talked to a local fuel manufacturer who mentioned that there are new regulations in regards to storage and sale of Methanol planned that would make the business unviable for him and can really only be followed by the biggest companies in the field. Also still unclear if these regulations are also to be followed by private entities, if so then the only economically viable way to keep using Methanol based fuels is if they are stored at the track under quite high security. Again, could also be Germany specific as we usually get the most controlling implementation of EU guidelines.

timjs

Planes are usually low nitro. Helis are higher nitro for a little extra power and more cooling (their load and cooling arrangement is usually marginal at best) but haven't seen much over 30% in the heli verse.
Cars can run higher nitro too. I still have a few gallons of some Byron's 55%/6%oil "drag race" fuel. I've ran that stuff in engines I normally run 20-30% in, and noticed very little difference. I now use that fuel just to add methanol and oil to produce multiple gallons of lower nitro fuel. The 55% just isn't necessary.

timjs

gotcha, thanks for clarifying.