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The New Werks B3 Pro II Engine

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Old 03-14-2018, 04:36 AM
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Default The New Werks B3 Pro II Engine

Didn't see a thread started for this engine. If there is one, Admin just delete it.

Would like to hear from those that have one already.




Specifications:

Stroke: 16.9mm
Bore: 16.2mm
RPM Range: 3,000-40,000
Output: 2.5hp at 30,000rpm
Sleeve: Three Port, Chrome Plated Brass
Piston: CNC Machined High-Silicon Aluminum Alloy
Connecting Rod: Knife Edged, Double Bushed 7075 T6 Aluminum Alloy
Crankshaft: Lightened & Epoxy filled.
Bearings: Double Shielded steel front, Swiss "ceramic" rear.
Carburetor: Revised HHSN technology, 2 Needle, Adjustable Venturi, Heat Isolation Sleeve.
Cooling Head: Lightweight, CNC Machined, Super Low CG Wrap Around Case Design

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Old 03-14-2018, 12:55 PM
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Old 03-14-2018, 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by sfox1026 View Post
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I'm sure Ron will start a thread soon.
Check out the Werks Racing Facebook page - we have posted two reports on the new B3 Pro Series II so far (in the last 6 weeks if you scroll back)

https://m.facebook.com/werksracingusa
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Old 03-14-2018, 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted by sfox1026 View Post
Didn't see a thread started for this engine. If there is one, Admin just delete it.

Would like to hear from those that have one already.




Specifications:

Stroke: 16.9mm
Bore: 16.2mm
RPM Range: 3,000-40,000
Output: 2.5hp at 30,000rpm
Sleeve: Three Port, Chrome Plated Brass
Piston: CNC Machined High-Silicon Aluminum Alloy
Connecting Rod: Knife Edged, Double Bushed 7075 T6 Aluminum Alloy
Crankshaft: Lightened & Epoxy filled.
Bearings: Double Shielded steel front, Swiss "ceramic" rear.
Carburetor: Revised HHSN technology, 2 Needle, Adjustable Venturi, Heat Isolation Sleeve.
Cooling Head: Lightweight, CNC Machined, Super Low CG Wrap Around Case Design
Thanks for starting a thread on our new B3-Pro II engine! Just looking at the picture you posted again I have to say it's a pretty sexy looking motor I've been a little busy lately so have not had any time to start a thread on it but we're quite excited about this engine! We spent a lot of time testing and developing this engine and I think that we have come up with a pretty awesome product! It a new 3 port design that we came up with that offers really good power across the board with very good fuel economy and has all of the new features that we came up with for the B7 Kortz Edition also incorporated. That means that things like our new super low CG wrap around head design w/ specially machined case, new HHSN carb design etc. etc. are all included! I've always tried to make sure that our engines offer more bang for the buck than any of the other brands out there and in the case of our new B3-Pro I have no doubt that we have again done just that!

These engines are just starting to get out there so there is probably not a lot of people that have their hands on them yet but I'll put up some comments that I got via e-mail from our importer in Brazil that expanded a little on what he posted on Facebook about his experience in the first race running the new B3-Pro II.

Originally Posted by grizz1 View Post
I'm sure Ron will start a thread soon.
Check out the Werks Racing Facebook page - we have posted two reports on the new B3 Pro Series II so far (in the last 6 weeks if you scroll back)

https://m.facebook.com/werksracingusa
Thanks for putting up the link! This thread is up already so I'm just going to let this one run! If anyone has any questions about our new B3-Pro II please feel free to post
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Old 03-14-2018, 05:56 PM
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And as promised here is the comments that I received from our importer in brazil about his first race experience with our new B3-Pro II motor! My comments are in red.
***************************

Ron, just very very quick as it is now 11.30 PM and I am still working...

I changed the plug (which was in the engine) for a #6 plug (this is after break in), put a new filter on, and re-tuned the engine. In qualify, I did 11.35 on one tank, but in the race, the engine was a bit richer, didnít really affect performance that much, but consumption was higher. (this happened because there was a bit of rush to race with the engine and it was not fully broken in yet so during the main the engine continued to break in, when that happens the amount of friction (metal pinch) gradually starts to reduce which then causes the engine temp to drop too resulting in a richer and richer engine & the increased fuel consumption that comes with that) My strategy with 10 minute pits didnít work out perfectly in the last 10 minutes (of the 40 minute main)Ö I ran out of fuel after having crossed the line at 39:50.

Now, performance is great, very good torque, but linear, meaning, I need less throttle to achieve speed, and with that, I need less fuel than others. Top speed is good, not as good as with the B7KE (this is not a negative as there are very few engines that have as much top end as the B7KE!), but as good as the other engines that were on track. The 2nd place by the way used the B7KE engine, and our best laps are just 0,1 seconds apart. The engine is exactly what I expected from this engine, what I hoped for. I think that will be the engine I will be using during the year from now on. I will run some tests between the B7KE and the B3ProII as soon as I have time, but I think the B3ProII is just a perfect match for our tracks down here. And, pitting at 10 minutes gives a huge advantage, and I was still running the 7,0 venturi, and the engine had just half a gallon on it. Temperature was always below 115 Celsius(239F)Ö ways to go
********************

I always advise drivers to try and put around a gallon through one of our motors when new to make sure that the engine is fully broken in, so this outing was as mentioned a bit rushed but overall I would say a pretty positive feedback for the B3-Pro II's first race!
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Old 03-15-2018, 04:23 AM
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Ron, as you said, this engine is not even fully broken in, and will still get better when going over the 1 gallon mark, but already now, it's a great engine. I am pretty sure it will be the engine of my choice for the season. Given on what I have seen so far, this will be a real 10 minute pit stop engine, which is what I was expecting and hoping for. And despite the huge torque, the engine is easy to control, and I didn't even play around with clutch settings yet. I hope I can find some time soon to do some more testing, and I will post my experiences on here... stay tuned!!

Originally Posted by Werks View Post
And as promised here is the comments that I received from our importer in brazil about his first race experience with our new B3-Pro II motor! My comments are in red.
***************************

Ron, just very very quick as it is now 11.30 PM and I am still working...

I changed the plug (which was in the engine) for a #6 plug (this is after break in), put a new filter on, and re-tuned the engine. In qualify, I did 11.35 on one tank, but in the race, the engine was a bit richer, didnít really affect performance that much, but consumption was higher. (this happened because there was a bit of rush to race with the engine and it was not fully broken in yet so during the main the engine continued to break in, when that happens the amount of friction (metal pinch) gradually starts to reduce which then causes the engine temp to drop too resulting in a richer and richer engine & the increased fuel consumption that comes with that) My strategy with 10 minute pits didnít work out perfectly in the last 10 minutes (of the 40 minute main)Ö I ran out of fuel after having crossed the line at 39:50.

Now, performance is great, very good torque, but linear, meaning, I need less throttle to achieve speed, and with that, I need less fuel than others. Top speed is good, not as good as with the B7KE (this is not a negative as there are very few engines that have as much top end as the B7KE!), but as good as the other engines that were on track. The 2nd place by the way used the B7KE engine, and our best laps are just 0,1 seconds apart. The engine is exactly what I expected from this engine, what I hoped for. I think that will be the engine I will be using during the year from now on. I will run some tests between the B7KE and the B3ProII as soon as I have time, but I think the B3ProII is just a perfect match for our tracks down here. And, pitting at 10 minutes gives a huge advantage, and I was still running the 7,0 venturi, and the engine had just half a gallon on it. Temperature was always below 115 Celsius(239F)Ö ways to go
********************

I always advise drivers to try and put around a gallon through one of our motors when new to make sure that the engine is fully broken in, so this outing was as mentioned a bit rushed but overall I would say a pretty positive feedback for the B3-Pro II's first race!
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Old 03-15-2018, 07:45 AM
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Which pipe works with this motor? Thank you
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Old 03-15-2018, 09:09 AM
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WERKS 2058

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Which pipe works with this motor? Thank you
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Old 03-15-2018, 07:53 PM
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I have been running this engine for a month or so in truggy now and I'm also using the 2058....seems to have plenty of punch and good run times in the truggy too
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Old 03-16-2018, 03:43 AM
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Ron, could you explain how the new carb Werks :-)
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Old 03-16-2018, 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by am View Post
Ron, could you explain how the new carb Werks :-)
Good eye's, I was wondering when people would notice our new carburetor design!




New Werks HHSN carb.

What you are seeing is a picture of our new HHSN carb design. This is a design that we have been working on and testing for the last 2 years and was initially released exclusively on the B7 Kortz Edition engine. We liked this carb design so much that with our new engine releases we have decided to also included our HHSN carburetor as standard, that is with the new B3-Pro II, B5-Pro II, B6-Pro II & GT engine models!

Here is a better picture of the carb with the cap's removed:




Our new HHSN carb is an aluminum based carb with a composite heat isolation sleeve (black sleeve around the base of the carb) and double o-ring sealing. Obviously when the carb is installed the carb base is inserted into the case and the composite sleeve then sits between the carb neck and the case, providing a thermal barrier that helps prevents the carb from absorbing heat. When the carb absorbs heat it causes the tune to change so this is one of the steps that we have taken to try and make our carb's tune as consistently as possible. Additionally you can see an o-ring that sits at the base of the carb which fits into a groove machined into the case and serves to both keep dirt and debris from entering the engine but also creates an air tight seal. That o-ring works in addition to a second one that is installed in the engine case which when the carb is installed fits around the heat isolation sleeve about 7-8mm lower and provides a second seal to ensure that there are no possible air leaks.

The second and what I would say is probably the most visible change that we have made to the HHSN carb is changing the HS needle position from vertical (like in traditional carb's) to horizontal. Doing this we have found results in a much more precise ability to meter fuel. So as the user it not only give you a better, much finer ability to adjust tune but the tune also stays much more consistent during the duration of the run.

The primary reason for all of this is that with our new HHSN carb we have basically changed the position where the actual fuel metering takes place by repositioning the HS needle.

In a traditional carb with a vertical HS needle the fuel enters the carb through a banjo joint then enters the HS needle housing usually through 2 or 4 small holes where it is then forced to make an abrupt 90 degree turn down the HS needle housing where the flow is then regulated/metered by the HS needle. The fuel then has to make another hard 90 degree turn before entering the spray bar. Every time the fuel flow is forced to make abrupt changes in angle it basically creates a choke point that affect fuel flow aka velocity. Something that if you think about it is even more of a factor if that velocity change occurs after the point where you meter fuel like with a traditional vertical HS needle.

With our new HHSN carb fuel flows into the engine exactly the same way as described above but we have positioned the HS needle horizontally so that it regulates/meters fuel after all of the directional changes and right at the point that it is about to enter the spray bar. This provides a very consistent fuel flow and hence a better ability to meter delivery.

Additionally with the HHSN carb design because we are metering fuel flow directly as it enters the spray bar we are able to use a much finer needle profile which provides the user with a much more precise ability to adjust fuel flow than with a traditional vertical HS needle carb. I apologize about the blurry picture, these things are so small that they are hard to photograph but if you take a look at the picture below I think it's pretty clearl to see the difference in HS needle designs:




The HS needle at the top with the red o-ring is from a traditional vertical HS needle assembly and has very little taper in it and fuel flow is basically just metered by its tip. The lower needle with black o-ring is from our new HHSN carb and as you can easily see not only has much more taper to it but is also much finer and that combined with how it is positioned directly inside the spray bar gives you much better control over fuel delivery.

Now for the big question, how does it work? It works just like your old carburetor but the HS needled is just in a slightly different position! So you tune or adjust it exactly like you would a traditional carb, you just get a much more consistent idle, a much better control over fuel delivery and you will see a much more consistent state of tune over the duration of your run!

Hope that helps give you a better understanding of our new HHSN carb design and the reasoning behind it! If you guys have any other questions please do not hesitate to ask
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Old 03-16-2018, 05:55 PM
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Ron, great explanation of the carb! I would like to add something from the point of the user, besides the easy and very stable tune, which clearly is an advantage. I have been running this carb on the B7KE, the GT and now on the B3 engine, and I have the feeling that the carburator, or better, the engine, reacts quicker to my throttle inputs than with the "old" carburator. This is something which I can't measure, but it is a feeling I have... Looking forward to comments from other users in the near future

Originally Posted by Werks View Post
Good eye's, I was wondering when people would notice our new carburetor design!




New Werks HHSN carb.

What you are seeing is a picture of our new HHSN carb design. This is a design that we have been working on and testing for the last 2 years and was initially released exclusively on the B7 Kortz Edition engine. We liked this carb design so much that with our new engine releases we have decided to also included our HHSN carburetor as standard, that is with the new B3-Pro II, B5-Pro II, B6-Pro II & GT engine models!

Here is a better picture of the carb with the cap's removed:




Our new HHSN carb is an aluminum based carb with a composite heat isolation sleeve (black sleeve around the base of the carb) and double o-ring sealing. Obviously when the carb is installed the carb base is inserted into the case and the composite sleeve then sits between the carb neck and the case, providing a thermal barrier that helps prevents the carb from absorbing heat. When the carb absorbs heat it causes the tune to change so this is one of the steps that we have taken to try and make our carb's tune as consistently as possible. Additionally you can see an o-ring that sits at the base of the carb which fits into a groove machined into the case and serves to both keep dirt and debris from entering the engine but also creates an air tight seal. That o-ring works in addition to a second one that is installed in the engine case which when the carb is installed fits around the heat isolation sleeve about 7-8mm lower and provides a second seal to ensure that there are no possible air leaks.

The second and what I would say is probably the most visible change that we have made to the HHSN carb is changing the HS needle position from vertical (like in traditional carb's) to horizontal. Doing this we have found results in a much more precise ability to meter fuel. So as the user it not only give you a better, much finer ability to adjust tune but the tune also stays much more consistent during the duration of the run.

The primary reason for all of this is that with our new HHSN carb we have basically changed the position where the actual fuel metering takes place by repositioning the HS needle.

In a traditional carb with a vertical HS needle the fuel enters the carb through a banjo joint then enters the HS needle housing usually through 2 or 4 small holes where it is then forced to make an abrupt 90 degree turn down the HS needle housing where the flow is then regulated/metered by the HS needle. The fuel then has to make another hard 90 degree turn before entering the spray bar. Every time the fuel flow is forced to make abrupt changes in angle it basically creates a choke point that affect fuel flow aka velocity. Something that if you think about it is even more of a factor if that velocity change occurs after the point where you meter fuel like with a traditional vertical HS needle.

With our new HHSN carb fuel flows into the engine exactly the same way as described above but we have positioned the HS needle horizontally so that it regulates/meters fuel after all of the directional changes and right at the point that it is about to enter the spray bar. This provides a very consistent fuel flow and hence a better ability to meter delivery.

Additionally with the HHSN carb design because we are metering fuel flow directly as it enters the spray bar we are able to use a much finer needle profile which provides the user with a much more precise ability to adjust fuel flow than with a traditional vertical HS needle carb. I apologize about the blurry picture, these things are so small that they are hard to photograph but if you take a look at the picture below I think it's pretty clearl to see the difference in HS needle designs:




The HS needle at the top with the red o-ring is from a traditional vertical HS needle assembly and has very little taper in it and fuel flow is basically just metered by its tip. The lower needle with black o-ring is from our new HHSN carb and as you can easily see not only has much more taper to it but is also much finer and that combined with how it is positioned directly inside the spray bar gives you much better control over fuel delivery.

Now for the big question, how does it work? It works just like your old carburetor but the HS needled is just in a slightly different position! So you tune or adjust it exactly like you would a traditional carb, you just get a much more consistent idle, a much better control over fuel delivery and you will see a much more consistent state of tune over the duration of your run!

Hope that helps give you a better understanding of our new HHSN carb design and the reasoning behind it! If you guys have any other questions please do not hesitate to ask
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Old 03-17-2018, 02:40 PM
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Thank you. On the pic in the first post, it actually looks like it is a small needle also in the screw for the banjo. it is an Optical illusion or a shadow. That was what intrigued me :-)

I have used REDS and and it is very stable and easy to adjust.

Did you notice any difference in fuel consumption?
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Old 03-18-2018, 07:38 AM
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As with the REDS carb, you wont see any change in fuel consumption, but you will have an easier to tune and more stable engine, with better response.

Originally Posted by am View Post
Thank you. On the pic in the first post, it actually looks like it is a small needle also in the screw for the banjo. it is an Optical illusion or a shadow. That was what intrigued me :-)

I have used REDS and and it is very stable and easy to adjust.

Did you notice any difference in fuel consumption?
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Old 03-18-2018, 01:48 PM
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Originally Posted by am View Post
Thank you. On the pic in the first post, it actually looks like it is a small needle also in the screw for the banjo. it is an Optical illusion or a shadow. That was what intrigued me :-)

I have used REDS and and it is very stable and easy to adjust.

Did you notice any difference in fuel consumption?
I'll have to defer to thommi's response on this one as I've actually never held in hand or used the carb that I've seen Reds offers on one or two of their engines. That's actually a Picco product with a Reds label on it and it's been 12 or 13 years since we've done and work with Picco on engines so I do not know exactly what they are doing with their carb design. This style of carb though is pretty similar to airplanes and boat carbs which have been made like this since back in the 40's or so lol. So it's not really anything that either of us can have any legitimate claim to have come up with or "invented".

Having said that though while this type of design may seen a little unusual for carbs on car engines it actually something that we have been testing for a few years and have included with the Kortz engines since mid/end of 2016 or so. So it's not exactly new, it's more something that I just did not really talk about as much as I probably should have. But now that we are rolling it out across almost the entire product line I think the benefits of the design are something that people really should be made aware of as it really does make for a quite major improvement in tune ability and performance imho
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