Go Back  R/C Tech Forums > North American Regional Forums > Northwest Racers
Seattle RC Racers/Hangar 30 >

Seattle RC Racers/Hangar 30

Like Tree369Likes

Seattle RC Racers/Hangar 30

Old 05-05-2009, 10:20 AM
  #631  
Tech Fanatic
iTrader: (1)
 
gwhiz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 960
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

Originally Posted by jubilee
This new 1/12 ain't gonna race itself.
Originally Posted by oldrcr
But I should be there, with 1/12th ca in hand.
a
You guys are making me want to run my little foamy. The Slapmaster thrust kit made my diff downright luxurious.

So its 1:12 for me on the 13th. Weeeeeeeeee!!!

/12
gwhiz is offline  
Old 05-05-2009, 10:26 AM
  #632  
Tech Elite
iTrader: (37)
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: PacNW
Posts: 3,010
Trader Rating: 37 (100%+)
Default

Originally Posted by gwhiz
You guys are making me want to run my little foamy. The Slapmaster thrust kit made my diff downright luxurious.

So its 1:12 for me on the 13th. Weeeeeeeeee!!!

/12
Foamy?
Attached Thumbnails Seattle RC Racers/Hangar 30-foamy.jpg  
jubilee is offline  
Old 05-05-2009, 10:48 AM
  #633  
Tech Elite
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
PutAwayWet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 2,731
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default TA05 Asphalt Setup

Originally Posted by Goingfast
Hey Todd
I need a good asphalt set up for TAO5...Thanks
Do I need LW chassis to get the car works better? pm back
I'll post it here. Someone else might find it useful.

The LW tub isn't essential for asphalt. It helps for rubber on carpet because it is stiffer, but it isn't appreciably lighter. Stock is fine for outdoors.

Anyway, for what it's worth, my setup and process:

Tub chassis are durable and resistant to tweak, but they will tweak, nevertheless. It's pointless to tune a tweaked chassis. So, before every race day, I loosen screws top and bottom. Tighten the bottom screws--X-pattern the bulkheads and suspension mounts front and rear. On top, X-pattern the bulkheads. Pressing down on the tub on a flat surface (tires and shocks off, obviously), rear then front, tighten the chassis braces inside to out.

YOU CAN"T TUNE A TWEAKED CHASSIS!

ARMS

Narrow the track width. I run 186mm in rear, 184mm in front. A combination of hexes and arm mounts will achieve this. The combo varies depending on the suspension, stock or lightweight, long arm or short arm. (On carpet stab the width out to the max 190mm, tuning the front width 1 or 2 mm for turn-in: a very powerful setting, in my experience.)

Run 3 deg. rear toe-in (BTW Kuney and Korey, I checked my toe-in at home on my setup station and it was 4 deg. TryHard's chart was wrong. It's 3 deg. now. Don't believe everything you read. Be suspicious of authority. Beware the Man.) I also run front arm sweep: 2 deg, but I'm at 0.5 deg toe-out at the tires.

With tires and shocks off, I set the droop screws so that my axles are at equal height, left to right, measured from a flat surface. I just use a ruler and measure to the top of the axle against the hex. On my car, it's 26mm in the front, 25mm in the rear. This will vary slightly depending on the suspension.

My inboard camber links are mounted in the 2nd hole from the inside.

SWAYS and SHOCKS

I run a soft rear sway bar and a medium front. Don't bother with sways on the stock suspension.

TRF Shocks are 3-hole/40 wt. front and rear. Yellow springs front and rear. No foams in the caps.

RIDE HEIGHT and DROOP

At 5mm ride height, I run 2mm of front travel-over and 3mm rear travel-over. This helps with on-power push. Measure ride height on both chassis sides, front and rear.

For the travel-over (often referred to as droop but I like travel-over because I understand it better that way), I use my ride height gauge at center rear or center front and measure. Then, I lift the car by pinching the center of the bulkhead and lift until I feel the suspension hit the downstops (the droop screws) and measure. Subtract your ride height from this to get your travel-over.

Personally, I use the wheel lift-off thing to check if my chassis is tweaked, not to measure droop. If the wheels come off the deck unevenly, I'm tweaked, so I figure out where. It's probably the deck, so unzip and rezip and recheck the lift-off. Check for bent ball studs, loose shock ball cups, bent camber links, loose ball cups, bent suspension pins, cracked C's or knuckles, cracked arms...having fun yet?

CAMBER

I use camber day to day and run to run to manage grip and tire wear. Usually, I start at 2 deg. front and rear.

ROLL CENTER

I use camber link spacers day to day and run to run to manage grip. I start with a relatively larger link spacer (resulting in a lower roll center) in front to get more front grip versus the rear. Start with a 1mm spacer in the front (if you're using the little brace, 3mm if you're not), and a 1mm spacer in the rear.

TIRES, TIRES, TIRES

All of the above adjustments pale in their power compared to the effect of tires. No chassis setting can correct for the wrong tire choice or an ineffective pre-race tire strategy. I am sorting this out myself, and whether I like it or not, tire warmers are probably in my near future. I'm also unexcited by Jaco Blues. It's hard to beat Sorex's.

There's always more to do, and different ways to do it. Others have their preferences and may have more authority. But the above process works for me. I hope it helps.

Todd M.
PutAwayWet is offline  
Old 05-05-2009, 10:58 AM
  #634  
Tech Elite
iTrader: (37)
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: PacNW
Posts: 3,010
Trader Rating: 37 (100%+)
Default

Todd you forgot the chicken bones, pixie dust, and magic crystals.

jubilee is offline  
Old 05-05-2009, 11:30 AM
  #635  
Tech Elite
iTrader: (29)
 
Goingfast's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 2,457
Trader Rating: 29 (100%+)
Default

Originally Posted by PutAwayWet
I'll post it here. Someone else might find it useful.

The LW tub isn't essential for asphalt. It helps for rubber on carpet because it is stiffer, but it isn't appreciably lighter. Stock is fine for outdoors.

Anyway, for what it's worth, my setup and process:

Tub chassis are durable and resistant to tweak, but they will tweak, nevertheless. It's pointless to tune a tweaked chassis. So, before every race day, I loosen screws top and bottom. Tighten the bottom screws--X-pattern the bulkheads and suspension mounts front and rear. On top, X-pattern the bulkheads. Pressing down on the tub on a flat surface (tires and shocks off, obviously), rear then front, tighten the chassis braces inside to out.

YOU CAN"T TUNE A TWEAKED CHASSIS!

ARMS

Narrow the track width. I run 186mm in rear, 184mm in front. A combination of hexes and arm mounts will achieve this. The combo varies depending on the suspension, stock or lightweight, long arm or short arm. (On carpet stab the width out to the max 190mm, tuning the front width 1 or 2 mm for turn-in: a very powerful setting, in my experience.)

Run 3 deg. rear toe-in (BTW Kuney and Korey, I checked my toe-in at home on my setup station and it was 4 deg. TryHard's chart was wrong. It's 3 deg. now. Don't believe everything you read. Be suspicious of authority. Beware the Man.) I also run front arm sweep: 2 deg, but I'm at 0.5 deg toe-out at the tires.

With tires and shocks off, I set the droop screws so that my axles are at equal height, left to right, measured from a flat surface. I just use a ruler and measure to the top of the axle against the hex. On my car, it's 26mm in the front, 25mm in the rear. This will vary slightly depending on the suspension.

My inboard camber links are mounted in the 2nd hole from the inside.

SWAYS and SHOCKS

I run a soft rear sway bar and a medium front. Don't bother with sways on the stock suspension.

TRF Shocks are 3-hole/40 wt. front and rear. Yellow springs front and rear. No foams in the caps.

RIDE HEIGHT and DROOP

At 5mm ride height, I run 2mm of front travel-over and 3mm rear travel-over. This helps with on-power push. Measure ride height on both chassis sides, front and rear.

For the travel-over (often referred to as droop but I like travel-over because I understand it better that way), I use my ride height gauge at center rear or center front and measure. Then, I lift the car by pinching the center of the bulkhead and lift until I feel the suspension hit the downstops (the droop screws) and measure. Subtract your ride height from this to get your travel-over.

Personally, I use the wheel lift-off thing to check if my chassis is tweaked, not to measure droop. If the wheels come off the deck unevenly, I'm tweaked, so I figure out where. It's probably the deck, so unzip and rezip and recheck the lift-off. Check for bent ball studs, loose shock ball cups, bent camber links, loose ball cups, bent suspension pins, cracked C's or knuckles, cracked arms...having fun yet?

CAMBER

I use camber day to day and run to run to manage grip and tire wear. Usually, I start at 2 deg. front and rear.

ROLL CENTER

I use camber link spacers day to day and run to run to manage grip. I start with a relatively larger link spacer (resulting in a lower roll center) in front to get more front grip versus the rear. Start with a 1mm spacer in the front (if you're using the little brace, 3mm if you're not), and a 1mm spacer in the rear.

TIRES, TIRES, TIRES

All of the above adjustments pale in their power compared to the effect of tires. No chassis setting can correct for the wrong tire choice or an ineffective pre-race tire strategy. I am sorting this out myself, and whether I like it or not, tire warmers are probably in my near future. I'm also unexcited by Jaco Blues. It's hard to beat Sorex's.

There's always more to do, and different ways to do it. Others have their preferences and may have more authority. But the above process works for me. I hope it helps.

Todd M.

WOW Thanks todd
Is the IFS is any different set up compare the TA05 ? You didn't mention shock springs?
Goingfast is offline  
Old 05-05-2009, 12:00 PM
  #636  
Tech Elite
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
PutAwayWet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 2,731
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default IFS

I run the upright suspension, but the IFS rockers are equal length center to ends, so they should not introduce a progressive spring or damping rate into the equation (by comparison, check the Traxxas Revo or the Tamiya CR01, rocker arm differential is a huge deal.)

Yellow springs, front and rear.
PutAwayWet is offline  
Old 05-05-2009, 12:21 PM
  #637  
Tech Master
iTrader: (19)
 
mkdut's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: RC Retired
Posts: 1,961
Trader Rating: 19 (100%+)
Default

Originally Posted by PutAwayWet

YOU CAN"T TUNE A TWEAKED CHASSIS!
You have to tune around the tweek! As I seem to recall the carbon reinforced chassis was never flat for the TA05. They may have fixed it at this point. The plastic tub was actually flatter but not perfect.
mkdut is offline  
Old 05-05-2009, 12:57 PM
  #638  
Tech Fanatic
iTrader: (9)
 
MarkBrown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 774
Trader Rating: 9 (100%+)
Default

Interesting stuff! Thanks for sharing.

Originally Posted by PutAwayWet
The LW tub isn't essential for asphalt. ...
And good thing, too, because so many of the LW tubs come pre-tweaked from the Tamiya factory.

Originally Posted by PutAwayWet
Pressing down on the tub on a flat surface ...
My tub isn't flat enough on the bottom to use this technique (for droop either). But I've never experienced tweak with the normal tub. It is quite flexy so it might be hard to notice, especially in Trans-Am.

Originally Posted by PutAwayWet
I checked my toe-in at home on my setup station and it was 4 deg. TryHard's chart was wrong. It's 3 deg. now. ...
In my experience there's a fair bit of slop in the Tamiya pin mounts, enough to give an extra degree of rear toe-in (per side) under power. I thought of taking the slop out and then reaming the arms so they'd pivot on the pins (instead of the pins pivoting on the mounts), but the car works OK as is so why bother?

Originally Posted by PutAwayWet
I set the droop screws so that my axles are at equal height, left to right, measured from a flat surface. ...
Since my tub isn't flat, I eyeball the droop. Looking from the side of the chassis, I get the top of the lower shock mount screw to line up with something, e.g. the top of the rear pin bushing. Same both sides. Then I adjust droop 1/6 or 1/12th of a turn at a time, each side, using a hex wrench with a 6-sided handle. Works for me.


Originally Posted by PutAwayWet
I use camber link spacers day to day and run to run to manage grip. I start with a relatively larger link spacer (resulting in a lower roll center) in front to get more front grip versus the rear. Start with a 1mm spacer in the front (if you're using the little brace, 3mm if you're not), and a 1mm spacer in the rear. ...
I gather you are adjusting the camber link angles by adjusting shims on the inside, not the outside.

A problem with using camber link angle to adjust roll center is that the angle also affects camber gain, which works in the opposite direction (flatter link lowers roll center but reduces camber gain). A more direct way to adjust roll center is with shims under the blocks. To lower the roll center you have to flip over the blocks, which the 1X - 1D blocks are not designed to do but with a little Dremel work you can make your own shims for the purpose.

Originally Posted by PutAwayWet
I'm also unexcited by Jaco Blues. ...
Jaco Blues have a shorter stiffer sidewall than Sorex tires, which can be good but you'll probably need more static camber an/or more camber gain in your setup. Keith Yu, a Team Associated driver from BC, ran Jaco Blues at FW a couple of weekends ago in open mod and was quite competitive with the guys running Sorex tires.
MarkBrown is offline  
Old 05-05-2009, 04:50 PM
  #639  
Tech Champion
iTrader: (14)
 
skypilot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 9,679
Trader Rating: 14 (100%+)
Default

Originally Posted by MarkBrown


Keith Yu, a Team Associated driver from BC, ran Jaco Blues at FW a couple of weekends ago in open mod and was quite competitive with the guys running Sorex tires.
seeing how i actually beat him, i'm going to have to disagree that he was competitive. this past weekend I ran 6 run sorexs with no compound and no heat in the main, it was a handful of crap but i managed to get 4th, was i competitive, umm no.

I think the guys that ran the xray race ran a new set for each heat and main, or close to it. for CARPET, the shorter side wall will help with traction rolling issues and wear should be fine, Kody has more info on this
skypilot is offline  
Old 05-05-2009, 04:53 PM
  #640  
Tech Adept
 
cabinetgod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: hillbilly holler
Posts: 155
Default

Originally Posted by jubilee
Todd you forgot the chicken bones, pixie dust, and magic crystals.

he also forgot to do the hoeky poeky and turn himself around
cabinetgod is offline  
Old 05-05-2009, 04:58 PM
  #641  
Tech Fanatic
iTrader: (9)
 
MarkBrown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 774
Trader Rating: 9 (100%+)
Default

Originally Posted by skypilot
seeing how i actually beat him, i'm going to have to disagree that he was competitive. this past weekend I ran 6 run sorexs with no compound and no heat in the main, it was a handful of crap but i managed to get 4th, was i competitive, umm no.
Thanks for the info, but I was referring to the race on April 26th where Keith qualified third (I think) and ran the second quickest lap in the main. He did have some problems in the main and finished seventh but he was quick. Especially for somebody who showed up late and got no practice.
MarkBrown is offline  
Old 05-05-2009, 05:05 PM
  #642  
Tech Champion
iTrader: (14)
 
skypilot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 9,679
Trader Rating: 14 (100%+)
Default

like i said, anyday i beat keith he isn't competitive. and on that day, i was on two race day old tires,

i've been running ole crappy wore out tires and trying a different setup each round to try and find something that will work at the Reedy Race when the tires go away 2 minutes into the race. ya can't find jacos anywhere right now or so i'm told by my LHS
skypilot is offline  
Old 05-06-2009, 08:31 AM
  #643  
Suspended
iTrader: (7)
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Everett
Posts: 1,428
Trader Rating: 7 (100%+)
Default

ya can't find jacos anywhere right now or so i'm told by my LHS
I still have 6 sets in stock at our store, I think....and more will be available later next week.
Wes Briscoe is offline  
Old 05-06-2009, 08:44 AM
  #644  
Tech Champion
iTrader: (14)
 
skypilot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 9,679
Trader Rating: 14 (100%+)
Default

Thanks for the info. pease told me you had some, but everett, and traffic, and me being a lazy ass don't mix.

the guys down south are saying can't get them
skypilot is offline  
Old 05-06-2009, 08:46 AM
  #645  
Tech Champion
iTrader: (14)
 
skypilot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 9,679
Trader Rating: 14 (100%+)
Default

BTW Wes, you guys have any old school M11's or Ko's,
skypilot is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.