Go Back  R/C Tech Forums > North American Regional Forums > Northwest Racers
Seattle RC Racers/Hangar 30 >

Seattle RC Racers/Hangar 30

Like Tree369Likes

Seattle RC Racers/Hangar 30

Old 11-29-2010, 11:42 AM
  #5296  
Tech Elite
iTrader: (101)
 
corallyman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Edmonds, Wash
Posts: 4,707
Trader Rating: 101 (100%+)
Default

Just out of curiosity, why did we spray Paragon Traction Action and not just straight Paragon out of the black can. They cost about the same and the Hangar is so big I doubt if anyone except for maybe the sparyer would have notice any difference. Just a question, not trying to stir anything up.

Steve
corallyman is offline  
Old 11-29-2010, 12:01 PM
  #5297  
Tech Elite
iTrader: (9)
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 2,637
Trader Rating: 9 (100%+)
Default

Originally Posted by corallyman
Just out of curiosity, why did we spray Paragon Traction Action and not just straight Paragon out of the black can. They cost about the same and the Hangar is so big I doubt if anyone except for maybe the sparyer would have notice any difference. Just a question, not trying to stir anything up.

Steve
Because thats what CRC told us to try as thats what they do!
Kody is offline  
Old 11-29-2010, 12:14 PM
  #5298  
Tech Elite
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
PutAwayWet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 2,733
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

Steve,

The Traction Action recommendation came straight from Frank Calandra, Jr. at CRC. We're doing exactly what the CRC track does. According to Frank, spraying with Ground Effects brings the grip to ridiculous levels.

Based on my own running and calling a full day of racing, I would say the traction in the first two rounds was right on the money: high, no question, but very driveable and fast. Round 3 and the mains were more challenging. We had a ton of traffic, obviously, which made a big difference. That, and it definitely warmed up as the day went on.

Clearly, the Traction Action has been effective. I went to one can on Saturday, down from the two of previous races. While building the track in the morning, I could still feel some stickiness in the groove. I considered not spraying, but chose to dial back to the single can, instead. If, on the 8th, the track still feels at all tacky I will hold off spraying. Better to build grip than start off with too much leaving us with nothing to do but bang our heads.

The track is showing wear. It's inevitable, and it signals the success of the program. Fortunately, our operating model permits us to put money in the bank for the very purpose of maintaining and improving our assets. We're headed toward a break. Expect to see appropriate adjustments to how we manage our assets, including an upgrade of hardware, shuffling of the carpet panels, and a new layout.

Finally, I will simply say this: I am completely committed to ensuring that Hangar 30 continues to be a successful race program for this club. I'm giving it everything I've got, and I've got more in the tank. The Comp Committee is engaged, and our corps of hands-on club members is robust and reliable. We will respond to issues as they arise. Success will not be our downfall.
PutAwayWet is offline  
Old 11-29-2010, 12:40 PM
  #5299  
Tech Champion
iTrader: (13)
 
Korey Harbke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Redmond, WA
Posts: 6,176
Trader Rating: 13 (100%+)
Default

Originally Posted by jubilee
Thanks Korey! Sheesh, I'm really close to this...need to do some precision checking but sure I'm real close. Just goes to show how sensitive these little buggers are.

I got really frustrated at the last Wed night race. Was feeling like I had a handle on what to do, then nothing I tried worked. It was maddening.
Any car when it isn't working right is frustrating. If you need any help feel free to ask buddy. Just make sure nothing is bent or tweaked, and measure everything correctly. It goes a long way The kingpins tend to back out or get bent so check those frequently.

-Korey
Korey Harbke is offline  
Old 11-29-2010, 02:29 PM
  #5300  
Tech Elite
iTrader: (101)
 
corallyman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Edmonds, Wash
Posts: 4,707
Trader Rating: 101 (100%+)
Default

Originally Posted by Kody
Because thats what CRC told us to try as thats what they do!
Originally Posted by PutAwayWet
Steve,

The Traction Action recommendation came straight from Frank Calandra, Jr. at CRC. We're doing exactly what the CRC track does. According to Frank, spraying with Ground Effects brings the grip to ridiculous levels.

Based on my own running and calling a full day of racing, I would say the traction in the first two rounds was right on the money: high, no question, but very driveable and fast. Round 3 and the mains were more challenging. We had a ton of traffic, obviously, which made a big difference. That, and it definitely warmed up as the day went on.

Clearly, the Traction Action has been effective. I went to one can on Saturday, down from the two of previous races. While building the track in the morning, I could still feel some stickiness in the groove. I considered not spraying, but chose to dial back to the single can, instead. If, on the 8th, the track still feels at all tacky I will hold off spraying. Better to build grip than start off with too much leaving us with nothing to do but bang our heads.

The track is showing wear. It's inevitable, and it signals the success of the program. Fortunately, our operating model permits us to put money in the bank for the very purpose of maintaining and improving our assets. We're headed toward a break. Expect to see appropriate adjustments to how we manage our assets, including an upgrade of hardware, shuffling of the carpet panels, and a new layout.

Finally, I will simply say this: I am completely committed to ensuring that Hangar 30 continues to be a successful race program for this club. I'm giving it everything I've got, and I've got more in the tank. The Comp Committee is engaged, and our corps of hands-on club members is robust and reliable. We will respond to issues as they arise. Success will not be our downfall.


Thanks for the answers guys, that's all I was looking for. I like that idea Todd of letting the track "talk to you" about the spraying of it. Sounds like a plan.

Steve
corallyman is offline  
Old 11-29-2010, 05:34 PM
  #5301  
Tech Champion
iTrader: (31)
 
JayBee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: 12TH-MAN COUNTRY
Posts: 6,819
Trader Rating: 31 (100%+)
Default

Originally Posted by jubilee
Just goes to show how sensitive these little buggers are. I got really frustrated at the last Wed night race. Was feeling like I had a handle on what to do, then nothing I tried worked. It was maddening.
Myself included bud. These little cars have wayy more potential than we do, so I'm not giving up on mine yet.
Saturday morning in practice had a new set up on the car with BSR Gray/White (orange shore rating) rears @ 42.5mm and CRC Magenta fronts @ 41.75mm. Car was ballistic and felt fun to drive. Pulled out a few 9.8's & 9.9's. But this was only within 6min. The first qual felt about the same but I could feel the rear go away mid-race. After that, I was clawing at survival Not as bad as last Wed but still frustrating. Like I told someone at the track....I found rainbows (so-called solid changes) getting to that pot of gold (a solid 8min car) but when I get to the pot, I look in just to find mud (that $#i! didn't work)
I feel Brian is onto something when speaking of the track on the other end of the spectrum now.

Every once in a while the TURTLEMASTER has to throw me a snippet of his wisdom - "with only a few months on the car (a little bit over 1-1/2hrs of runtime), is that really a good amount of time to just totally switch up?"

So its back to the notebook and an update......

See ya'll on the 8th
JayBee is offline  
Old 11-29-2010, 07:07 PM
  #5302  
Tech Champion
iTrader: (13)
 
Korey Harbke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Redmond, WA
Posts: 6,176
Trader Rating: 13 (100%+)
Default

For me... I found the smaller tires dont last as long through the run, they're just a little more tippy though. So you have to find a balance. what I'm interested in though... your fronts didn't fade. Maybe we should revisit the magenta/pink combos? I was running blacks, yellows, and other tires of the sorts because they pick up less junk and USUALLY feel more consistent through the run. Maybe I'm on the wrong page here...? I have things to test next time

-Korey
Korey Harbke is offline  
Old 11-29-2010, 07:07 PM
  #5303  
Tech Elite
iTrader: (2)
 
Maybell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Seattle
Posts: 2,109
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Default 1s Rotors

In a few words, we all need them...

More top speed, less power fade, we can gear lower for more punch! The LRP X-12 with the 1s rotor is top fuel. I am hearing the Duo3 is crazy fast with one as well...

They will be in the Tub AY-SAP!!!!!!
Maybell is offline  
Old 11-29-2010, 07:20 PM
  #5304  
Tech Master
iTrader: (16)
 
mini-dub's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: seattle
Posts: 1,638
Trader Rating: 16 (100%+)
Default

Originally Posted by Korey Harbke
For me... I found the smaller tires dont last as long through the run, they're just a little more tippy though. So you have to find a balance. what I'm interested in though... your fronts didn't fade. Maybe we should revisit the magenta/pink combos? I was running blacks, yellows, and other tires of the sorts because they pick up less junk and USUALLY feel more consistent through the run. Maybe I'm on the wrong page here...? I have things to test next time

-Korey
Well... all I know is I tried my mag/pinks first run out with the R5.1 and they picked up so much fuzz in a minute the car was undrivable. Maybe it was because it was first run and I pulled out of the line a few times for radio adjustments, but I still don't think they should have been that awful
mini-dub is offline  
Old 11-29-2010, 07:31 PM
  #5305  
Tech Elite
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
PutAwayWet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 2,733
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

I still feel like the Yellow/Magenta or Greylow/Magenta is a solid combo. If I had more time between runs I'm sure I could do a little fine tuning to really lock the car in, but even so, it's working for me. I was running tractor tire size, too: 47/45. I'll be running this set for the next three meetings, at least. Full dope front and rear.

The one thing I was doing on my better laps during Q3 and the main is not dumping all the way off throttle on turn entry, and I was definitely throttle on at the apex. When I hit it right, the car would not grip roll at all. It was when I came completely off throttle and turned that I had trouble.

Fuzz was moderate to minimal for me. Weylin: I do think you'll struggle with the pinks. They seem to collect a lot more fuzz than yellows.
PutAwayWet is offline  
Old 11-29-2010, 09:51 PM
  #5306  
Tech Elite
iTrader: (16)
 
Slapmaster6000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Edmonds, Wash.
Posts: 3,189
Trader Rating: 16 (100%+)
Default

Since we're in tire chat mode, I'll toss my thoughts in the ring. The TA spray has put us to the other end of the traction spectrum; too high. This has forced us into using similar tires, but with far different mechanical settings. When grip was low, we used a lot of yellow/black in larger diameters to get by. Then the window of opportunity opened to use several combos when we had medium grip. Now that we are reaching fly paper grip, we are back to yellow/black to keep the car free enough and shed enough to keep the fuzz from wrapping on the tires. Odd that one combo could work at both ends of the grip spectrum.

Against common belief, we are not going that fast with 13.5 no-boost. We are only creeping forward with microscopic improvements. It's possible that a 17.5 boosted class would trump our times. If we had 13.5 with boost right now, we should be topping 51 laps. The point is we need to be looking at stock grade tires for the speeds we are going. Pinks, magentas, 2xpinks and such are great tires for medium and faster classes so long as we are not picking up fuzz. But there is always going to be the odd case that someone will triumph with a tire combo that defies logic and then the rest of us will be on the side lines in wonder.

It would appear that the Associated likes the magenta's up front. That's fine, if it works, stick with it. I would say that after a few months of struggle, that the yellow/black combo seems to be the most versatile for CRC. You can deviate some to the greylow rears, which are suppose to free the car up just a touch at corner entry but seem to do the opposite by planting the rear more then yellows. The grey compound only makes up 20% of the outside of the tire making it just a little tougher and resisting tearing or chunking. The g/l seems to have two characteristics: free'er in low grip and stickier in high grip. The CRC guys are also running some grey fronts to get more steering then the blacks can provide. But with the grip levels we got to on mid day Sat, I had to abandon them for blacks. The amount of safety glue on the front sidewalls is also another side effect of too much grip I would like to get away from.

In the past few events at H30, some settings on the car that you outright know to be true, carved in stone, gospel, adjust this... this will happen seem to be wrong. In fact, it seems that you have to do the opposite to get the effect you need. I think that is what's frustrating some of our drivers. I know that I was confused all day Saturday. Case in point; we wanted to get the cars to rotate more towards the end of the run. What would you do? Probably stiffen side springs, increase side pre-load, increase camber? All wrong. We found better success with softer side springs with a very delicate preload, very little camber and fine tuning tube lube. Going nearly full dope fronts seem to keep the front tires cleaner without building up through out the run keeping the car more consistent. Getting the front end geometry right has now become more critical with the high grip.

While bitching about having too much grip is far better then having the dreaded spins at 4 minutes, it has become a different kind of frustrating. We are now at a unique opportunity to tone down what we are doing by saving time and money and gain back some practice time. Let's hope that we can widen the window of tire choices and reduce the hypercritical set ups.

Todd is on the right track. I suggest this test at the next meet; we'll lay Todd in the line and few of us will stomp on his backside, if he springs right up, we'll spray just a little. If we need to get the spatula and pry him up, we open practice. Todd; thanks for testing for prosperity.
Slapmaster6000 is offline  
Old 11-29-2010, 10:30 PM
  #5307  
Tech Master
iTrader: (16)
 
mini-dub's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: seattle
Posts: 1,638
Trader Rating: 16 (100%+)
Default

Originally Posted by Slapmaster6000

Todd is on the right track. I suggest this test at the next meet; we'll lay Todd in the line and few of us will stomp on his backside, if he springs right up, we'll spray just a little. If we need to get the spatula and pry him up, we open practice. Todd; thanks for testing for prosperity.
I thought this was metaphorical when I first started reading this paragraph
mini-dub is offline  
Old 11-30-2010, 11:13 AM
  #5308  
Suspended
iTrader: (9)
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,266
Trader Rating: 9 (100%+)
Default

Originally Posted by skypilot
going NORA on saturday. good times ahead.
Ditto. Come all. Let's make it the best club race Al has had there. We had over 70 entries on a freezing Sat, Should be able to get at least half that in a heated barn. Do it or else.


On the traction note. I love it on the TC side of things. Better than having none. That being said I am sure that tuning a TC for high traction is easier than a pan car. I think it's been said already but maybe try a every other race TA spray. Just my 3 cents.
tutankhamen is offline  
Old 11-30-2010, 11:26 AM
  #5309  
Tech Elite
iTrader: (2)
 
Maybell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Seattle
Posts: 2,109
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Default To Everyone

Im sorry Ive been so politically prickly lately on this thread. I quit smoking nasty cigs 2 weeks ago and IM GRUMPY!!! The tires dont suck and it looks like 1s rotors are now in question...Stay tuned!

I am truely in awe with this onroad scene and I am going to voice my opinions more tastfully in the future.

I love you all. I swear I am not gay. probably bi-polar though
Maybell is offline  
Old 11-30-2010, 11:43 AM
  #5310  
Tech Addict
iTrader: (17)
 
arn671's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 564
Trader Rating: 17 (100%+)
Thumbs up

Hey Maybell, It's OK we forgive you Wondering if Fantom had the sensor boards. Looking forward to the verdict on the 1s rotor-Alvin
arn671 is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Your Privacy Choices -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.