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Seattle RC Racers/Hangar 30

Old 12-16-2009, 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Magnet Top
Maybe we can bend that downspout with a bit of heat and get a nice quarter round ....... or it would buckle ?

I almost feel like you don't respect the dots.
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Old 12-16-2009, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Magnet Top
Maybe we can bend that downspout with a bit of heat and get a nice quarter round ....... or it would buckle ?
Have the corners all worked out. They would have been built already but Todd put a curve ball in front of us!

K
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Old 12-16-2009, 11:08 AM
  #2193  
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Here's my suggested track design for the new H30 carpet. The design is modeled on the 2009 Cleveland layout, which was quite popular with the drivers at that race.

I modified the ground rules somewhat. This design is for a no-dot track built of standard pieces, modeled on the CRC system that's used at many large races in the USA. The design uses uses 10, 5, and 2.5 foot straight sections and 45, 90, and 135 degree curved sections, plus tiny straight "stub" pieces when two curved sections are adjacent.

There are big advantages in building the track with a continuous barrier made from standard pieces, without dots or extended runs of unsupported flapper material:

* As Todd notes below, long runs of flapper material are difficult to keep tight to the carpet, so if use use them we'd lose the advantage we gained from going with square pipe: less wedging of cars, especially 12th-scales, under the barriers. A run of only a couple feet of flapper material can be too long.

* Dots are problematic in fast sections, as we've proven. Even in slow sections they allow more "creative" lines by out-of-control cars to take out innocent cars.

* A track built this way is easier to experiment with at design time (using a tool such as Visio) and it sets up the way it was designed, week after week.

* A track built this way allows easier layout changes. The club doesn't rank layout-changing high on its prioritiy list right now, but being able to have a new layout each year, or even two layouts per year, will help maintain and increase interest in the program. The ability to easily put in a new layout for big races is a definite plus: It both increases the uniqueness of the big event and, by eliminating the "unfair advantage" for locals, it encourages out-of-towners to come.

The 45, 90, and 135 degree curved sections can be produced in sufficient quantity for our track without too much effort. Each curved section can be built from two standard end pieces (cut from 4x4) that fit into the square plastic straight sections, connected (using screws) with a flat (1” ply) piece that gives the specific angle. The flapper plastic screws to the end pieces, with a gap to the flat connecting piece that allows the plastic to bend on impact.

The attached PDF shows the suggested layout including parts count (not including the outside boundary), drivers stand with sight lines to the near corners, timing loop, and turn marshal positions.
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File Type: pdf
H30 Cleveland 09.pdf (50.6 KB, 156 views)
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Old 12-16-2009, 12:06 PM
  #2194  
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In trying to maximize the carpet real estate I created a couple designs last night ( one happens to be very similar to Mark's "modified" Cleveland design ) although I tried to stay closer to Todd's guidelines. The one thing that I didn't adhere to was needing some 90 degree curves. I like the short curled flappers that Mark suggests.

( as a side note ) after running at Time Zone - some of the long lengths with a flapper at the end (that are solely held down by velcro) move on occasion so maybe double downspouts back to back might be used in this situation ?

Specifically the second ( grey one ) I just tried to create something that would encourage alternate driving lines for passing areas to evolve , for instance if a person shot wide on a particular turn it would require creative mistake management for a series of turns... etc.. etc.. : see attachements


Regardless... enjoy, critique, or modify....

-anonymous
Attached Thumbnails Seattle RC Racers/Hangar 30-simple_layout.jpg   Seattle RC Racers/Hangar 30-more_techy.jpg  
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Old 12-16-2009, 01:02 PM
  #2195  
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The sharing of track layouts is a good idea. I'll have mine on hand at the next race to pass around.

I will say, the spec about standard pieces is not to be dismissed. Designs should prioritize that. To say that we can do this or that to make different sizes more convenient misses the point. We want to build in as much simplicity as possible, and if we create extra practice time in our day by keeping it simple, all the better. This is a teardown track, so it will follow that our barriers won't be as rock-solid as a permanent track's. For the record, my current layout has four odd-size pipes and seven flappers. That's it. Everything else is a ten-foot stick, green carpet, or...

Dots, it's no secret I like them. I am also happy to concede they have their place, and sweepers aren't one of them. But full pipes are no panacea. Every barrier has crash potential. I've hit and been hit plenty of times when my car or another bounces off a pipe back into traffic. And I don't think any of us have been spared the smack of a car stuffed in a pipe at an apex. The occasional creative line can be a blessing for all involved. I also like how a car that rolls a dot will tend to roll clear of the driving line. I've been watching the ETS races on YouTube. Just about every track dots the apexes, and I'm thinking that's why. Too bad for the car that rolls, but a good thing for those behind. In other words, "Respect the Dots."

That said, it's an open contest, so everyone should do as they will and make their arguments as they can. But when it's done, we will respect the outcome. Layout changes will be very infrequent. Think of glacial intervals, if that helps.

Todd M.
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Old 12-16-2009, 01:42 PM
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I am going to put my two cents in, (I don't have much more to spare!) and say that I would love to see a sweeper at one end of the track included. A track that is all hairpins and 90s makes setup kind of one-sided. Make us work for both high speed stability and low speed turn-in
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Old 12-16-2009, 02:44 PM
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once a track layout is decided on and laid out, it is very easy and simple to put all the pieces back where they go, no matter the size or bend, and its even faster to tear down. a simple color code or numbering system will be a breeze to follow. it sounds like all the pipe as already been purchased, and plans are for replacing the external part of the track, if not all ready purchased, i would suggest using the exsisting outter round pipe. with the up coming expenses of the NWIC saving money should be a priority. IMO.

comments on marks layout, i like it except in places like the on the left side of the track i see no need for the 135's, why not just a straight pipe with a flapper on the end. cheaper, and easier, that thought could work in more places also.

comments on jakes layouts, i like them both, gray one is more of the drivers track, if a sweeper is needed, removed the little pipe on the left side.

looking forward to seeing more layouts saturday.
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Old 12-16-2009, 03:19 PM
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I like the grey layout posted by magnet top, if we are voting on those presented so far.

Suggestion, IIC Vegas layout. Anyone agree? I think it would be great to have a layout that is a 1:1 mirror of a constant national race layout and not just a deviation of one. It's a great track, it's fast, technical, and a blast for 12th scale and sedans.
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Old 12-16-2009, 03:55 PM
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thats a great Idea Wes.
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Old 12-16-2009, 04:17 PM
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Hey I have an idea maybe we can use the full hanger and make the layout like the Nürburgring. Sweet! Ritchie Reynolds wins with a 1/8:19.

Back to the regularly scheduled program, any of the layouts look good. I have mine but all the previous ones look like a version of the one I drew up.
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Old 12-16-2009, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Wes Briscoe
Suggestion, IIC Vegas layout. Anyone agree? I think it would be great to have a layout that is a 1:1 mirror of a constant national race layout and not just a deviation of one. It's a great track, it's fast, technical, and a blast for 12th scale and sedans.
I liked the "vegas" IIC layout, not sure what the size / footprint of it is , but I created a panorma from the drivers stand ( attached ) :

( note, I believe they screwed all the barriers down into the plywood subfloor so there was no worry for movement )
Attached Thumbnails Seattle RC Racers/Hangar 30-photo.jpg  

Last edited by Magnet Top; 12-16-2009 at 04:31 PM.
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Old 12-16-2009, 04:39 PM
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I was going to design a layout. Then I saw all the works submitted by others, and realized that we are in talented hands.
I was going to weigh in on the submissions. Then I saw all the discussion, and realized that it would be like spitting in the ocean.
So I was going to keep my mouth shut and try to enjoy the challenge of whatever gets the most votes. Then I saw Wes' idea of copying the IIC layout.

Is there any way we can make the IIC layout happen for the most part? I mean maybe it has to be scaled or otherwise simplified to fit the H30 carpet footprint.

I think that would be hyper-nifty. Best idea so far.

My $0.02
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Old 12-16-2009, 05:18 PM
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ha, ha, reminds of a song
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Old 12-16-2009, 05:26 PM
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Here's mine.
Attached Thumbnails Seattle RC Racers/Hangar 30-mason-h30-track.jpg  
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Old 12-16-2009, 05:28 PM
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Dang you guys crushed my thunder! lol Have a IIC style layout in hand that I was going to bring... I did like it and it made you drive hard and cut stuff tight.

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