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Seattle RC Racers/Hangar 30

Old 03-15-2018, 10:12 PM
  #18931  
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Originally Posted by malkiy View Post
For me ... I would love to take motor tuning out of the equation and just focus on chassis tuning.

I know it would never happen but I wouldn’t mind fixed fdr for normal stock sedan.
I hear ya Mike. What they have going at the 360V2 track in NY looks like great fun. ETS has been doing it for years with great success.

Great job Seattle RC Racers Competition Committee. Thanks for giving us some rules that will give us what you think will lead to the most amount of close racing and smiling faces.

- Brian
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Old 03-15-2018, 10:28 PM
  #18932  
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How'd I get thrown into this? Leave me out of it.
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Old 03-15-2018, 10:42 PM
  #18933  
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Originally Posted by Carnage9270 View Post
How'd I get thrown into this? Leave me out of it.
I am sorry about put you in bad spot ..I was a little uptight about having to purchase Maclan motor for next carpet season which I prefer not to do.. Nobody know much about Maclan motor better than you ... Do you see my point?
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Old 03-15-2018, 10:45 PM
  #18934  
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There will be nothing to know honestly. The locked fdr will be set to take most of the performance out of the motor. And for the record, I was against this as well, but was outvoted. In fact, there wasn't much of a vote at all. Decision was already made.
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Old 03-15-2018, 10:51 PM
  #18935  
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Originally Posted by Carnage9270 View Post
There will be nothing to know honestly. The locked fdr will be set to take most of the performance out of the motor. And for the record, I was against this as well, but was outvoted. In fact, there wasn't much of a vote at all. Decision was already made.
thank you for you clarification....I am beginning to see how it done,,just like it has done in the pass
if the is the case lock timing /Malcan motor... oh well I am done ...sorry
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Old 03-15-2018, 11:05 PM
  #18936  
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I think the best way to look at this might be as like this:

1 - Scale spec should be a class where relative newcomers can race against any other level of racer and not be at such a disadvantage that they see very little light at the end of the tunnel. One way to help them, and still allow other levels of racer to participate, even at a high level, is to make it less complicated while they learn by racing against good drivers. This will allow them to see, at a speed they can handle, that they can do this. It will keep it visible to them. It will be making chassis set-up and driving the priority. Having the same power for all puts it at an equal footing in that area, and keeps it simple and less expensive too. If the speed is not overwhelming, yes, slow it down from what it is now, also keeps chassis repair cost reasonable, even allows older designed chassis to be used. It will also give somewhere for the veteran to sell their older equipment as well. Bodies won't have to be so aerodynamic because slower speeds won't allow a slicker style body as big of an advantage. Aerodynamic effects are on an exponential scale, slower brings all the bodies closer together in terms of effectiveness. Bring some of the realism back. Something others looking from outside that may want to get into our sport can relate to, cars that look familiar.

This is a win, win, win, for all of us. It helps keep the sport alive for the future. I have raced in Scale spec when the power we had was all the same. Our club used Novak 25.5 motors for scale spec that were basically identical to each other. It was some of the best racing I have had in many years of everything from full scale to slot cars. I race mod as well, have since the 80's, and have and still do enjoy racing in that, but I still have memories of the best races that still put a smile, a big smile on my face, from battles I had that were down to inches crossing the line with my competitor. And that wasn't even with me winning, the other person did, but we both had FUN, as well as the other 5 or 6 cars right on our tail, and we are all about as competitive as it gets. We should just take this to the next step and implement using an RPM limiter (which do exist) with FDR limit, in this class, to basically get rid of all this debate about which motor, battery and ESC to run. We would not be having drama, we would be racing. You can use any motor, battery, ESC brand you like since the they would all max out the same. The little differences in low end power would really be negligible, and if it came to it, we could add current limiters too. Easy to implement. I have heard many refute the accuracy and other claims about these limiting devices, some are external, some built into the ESC, well, that issue can and should be fixed. If the ESC manufacturers can do the magic with software they do to get us all the tweaks in frequency and algorithms to deliver better acceleration, timing curves, you name it, why would it be so hard for them to put a simple limit that is 99.99% accurate together? They should be ashamed if they claim the cannot. with that, the motor manufacturers can work on making a lighter motor, better quality, or even just make it cooler looking somehow, to give reason for a racer to buy their product over another.

2 - Stock Class - motor and ESC tweaking can be for the this step and continuing to learn finer points of chassis tuning and driving.

3 - Mod - when you are proficient and ready for a true challenge.

Simple, three tiered system.

(There can still be a novice class for first timers, but really we need a real racing class for them shortly after they decide to take the sport seriously. A spec class like scale spec should be that class)

Anyone see a problem with that? I probably shouldn't ask that, but I do think that many minds solving an issue can come up with good solutions. Just don't whine and complain, offer solutions.

I fully know the intent of the this club is to try get us back to this enjoyment level in the sport, as well as trying to keep the sport alive for all of us. I know none of the decision to use this motor/FDR was done to hurt our racing program or any other program, or help out anyones agenda, so please keep those thoughts out of this.

-Alex
:-)

Last edited by oldrcr; 03-16-2018 at 12:56 AM.
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Old 03-15-2018, 11:06 PM
  #18937  
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This seems like a good opportunity to place a callout to join the Comp Committee. We would love to have some new blood join the team and lend their perspective to discussions like this. Openings are coming up!
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Old 03-15-2018, 11:06 PM
  #18938  
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Originally Posted by OVA View Post
thank you for you clarification....I am beginning to see how it done,,just like it has done in the pass
if the is the case lock timing /Malcan motor... oh well I am done ...sorry
Just so all understand, its not a locked timing motor.
-a
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Old 03-15-2018, 11:23 PM
  #18939  
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Originally Posted by oldrcr View Post
Just so all understand, its not a locked timing motor.
-a
sorry not lock timing ,I meant lock FDR

your assay it understandable ...

Last edited by OVA; 03-15-2018 at 11:38 PM.
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Old 03-15-2018, 11:31 PM
  #18940  
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Can somebody post where it is that it says roar is going 21.5 for stock and eliminating 17.5 brushless? Orthe link Please , cant find it.
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Old 03-16-2018, 12:39 AM
  #18941  
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I found a lot of fun and tight laps in Scale Spec for many years with the Seattle and PNW gang. Truly, the tightest and biggest battles were had when we all had Novaks...

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Old 03-16-2018, 02:29 AM
  #18942  
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On another subject, leaner car count this year at the CC.
I think the lower entry numbers have a lot to do with a lot of the races including myself use to run multiple classes every race night, but when the fee's were raised to 20+20+20 people running multiple classes dropped off, also caused some families to cut back on members running due to cost. I think if you charge 20+10+10 and bring back the family discount rate the car count will raise back up again.

Because of the tight time frame at the CC practice time is extremely limited and people look at it as paying $20 for basically 18-20 minutes of run time a night per vehicle if your trying to race multiple classes.

This is just my thoughts after the meeting last night and reviewing the average entries per race night this year.
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Old 03-16-2018, 10:14 AM
  #18943  
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Originally Posted by jeff jenkins sr View Post
On another subject, leaner car count this year at the CC.
I think the lower entry numbers have a lot to do with a lot of the races including myself use to run multiple classes every race night, but when the fee's were raised to 20+20+20 people running multiple classes dropped off, also caused some families to cut back on members running due to cost. I think if you charge 20+10+10 and bring back the family discount rate the car count will raise back up again.

Because of the tight time frame at the CC practice time is extremely limited and people look at it as paying $20 for basically 18-20 minutes of run time a night per vehicle if your trying to race multiple classes.

This is just my thoughts after the meeting last night and reviewing the average entries per race night this year.
I think everyone would like that, so now we all need to write a letter to whomever decides how much rent we have to pay to use the space we do, so that they will be convinced to lower that amount. In the accounting review at the meeting, it was shown that we also basically broke even at the end of the year. Yes a small amount of profit, which goes toward the future, replacement pipe, new carpet eventually, other race related equipment, etc. Its a tricky computation unfortunately. If we charge less and get more races in, we run a longer program. We used to be able to run late as they let us close up ourselves, now we must pay a parks staff person until midnight to be there. This was a change that new management of the facility made, to keep with regulations the city has I'm sure. No longer can we go over an hour, or even two, which did happen on occasion, if we need to. A lot of effort by many to find a better situation has been pursued, we have it good actually, a nice place, smooth deck, heat, free storage, so until we find better, we have to do the best we can.

Its true, now the summer program brings in some extra revenue, which is why we have some money in the bank for the eventual needs that will come up, or if we encounter a rate increase, or other need for some money to keep the programs running. In the past we have had a members put out thousands of their own money to purchase new carpet, the stuff we are racing on now. If that didn't happen, we wouldn't be talking about racing at all right now. The outdoor program will be using the 20 + 10 + 10 method, to try offset the entry fee drain. So come on out, hopefully we will have nice days to race this summer. We were fortunate to have plenty of races last summer, lets hope we can this year as well.

I don't think any of us want it to cost what it does, it just does.

-a

Last edited by oldrcr; 03-16-2018 at 10:25 AM.
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Old 03-16-2018, 11:07 AM
  #18944  
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Hey Jeff,

I read you, and you are not the only person to have raised the issue of entry fees. At 20/20/20..., with a $35 family deal, we are very much in the range of clubs and tracks around the country. I would say we are in no way outliers on the fees. That said, to say we are only as expensive as other tracks ducks the question of being expensive. I get that.

Perhaps, as I think you are suggesting, if we lowered the second entry, we would then double the numbers of those second entries, enjoy larger turnouts, and still operate at the same level?

I think we are taking every opportunity to extend good value to our racers while keeping the income and expenses balanced. In addition to the race programs and facilities themselves, we offer touring and 1/12th spec tires at steep discounts to retail. The club fronts those expenses, carries the inventory through the season, and books a minimal "profit" at the end. For perspective, and while we are hopeful the ECC sets us back to right, we are still under water on our touring spec tires, halfway through March.
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Old 03-16-2018, 11:39 AM
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I don't want to get involved with this dialog, and possible war of words regarding these changes.

The bottom line is that the decision has already been made, and we will have to see how it all shakes out while hoping for the best.
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