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Seattle RC Racers/Hangar 30

Old 03-12-2018, 11:43 AM
  #18901  
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I plan to bring a milliohm meter to the ECC for those that want to check their motors.
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Old 03-13-2018, 12:01 AM
  #18902  
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Default Spool for 1/12

Has anyone seen a car run with something like this?

https://www.facebook.com/Highvelocit...MhnewKszjQTjjE

"HVRC is pleased to offer the new HV-010 direct drive 1/12 axle. Back plate is drilled and tapped M3 for the Xenon spurs. Other brand of spur gears will also fit with slight modification."
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Old 03-13-2018, 01:26 AM
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Originally Posted by PutAwayWet View Post
I feel obliged to report that at this past weekend's ROAR Nationals, racers with Team Scream motors had a miserable time getting their equipment through tech. Team Scream was not the only brand to have problems, but they are becoming one of the "usual suspects" along with Trinity and R1.

I have no idea whether my motor that I just set the track record with meets the spec, and I have no means at hand to confirm that it does. But as the president of the club and the first and last line of defense of our rule set, I'm pulling my motor until I can get it confirmed. My Motiv, in which I'm confident and which is having minimal to zero issues with tech at races with solid tech, is going back in.
Originally Posted by malkiy View Post
I plan to bring a milliohm meter to the ECC for those that want to check their motors.
problem solved?

Thanks Mike!
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Old 03-13-2018, 08:06 AM
  #18904  
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Originally Posted by Lence View Post
Has anyone seen a car run with something like this?

https://www.facebook.com/Highvelocit...MhnewKszjQTjjE

"HVRC is pleased to offer the new HV-010 direct drive 1/12 axle. Back plate is drilled and tapped M3 for the Xenon spurs. Other brand of spur gears will also fit with slight modification."
I've raced with one. Up in Kamloops. They are for high grip black carpet only. They don't work on our track.
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Old 03-13-2018, 09:04 AM
  #18905  
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Originally Posted by Lence View Post
Has anyone seen a car run with something like this?

https://www.facebook.com/Highvelocit...MhnewKszjQTjjE

"HVRC is pleased to offer the new HV-010 direct drive 1/12 axle. Back plate is drilled and tapped M3 for the Xenon spurs. Other brand of spur gears will also fit with slight modification."
They were widely used at ROAR Carpet Nats last week, quite successfully. But as Todd said, strictly a black-carpet affair.

Cheers,
Robert
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Old 03-14-2018, 11:11 AM
  #18906  
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Originally Posted by Carnage9270 View Post
Roar doesn't release the approval numbers unfortunately. They actually dont even give it to the manufacturers themselves. Sure makes tech easy doesn't it?
ROAR posted new minimum Stator resistance values this year. These numbers will fluctuate with the ambient tempurature on a meter. Us Oval guys pay very close attention to this kind of suff ;-)

- Jim Glasgow
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Old 03-14-2018, 11:13 AM
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Default ROAR updated Motor Specs w Minimum Stator Values

8.4.7.2.4 Effective 01/01/2018, rotors for spec wind motors will be identified with the manufacturers name or logo and the unique part number of the rotor. Also all rotors should have markings on the flat portion of the output shaft which allows for identification of the rotor without removal from the motor. 8.4.7.2.5

ROAR Spec 25.5 motor: The three slotted stator must be wound with 25.5 turns of two strands of wire with a maximum diameter of .643mm per slot. No motor will be approved with a resistance less than 101 milliohms between any 2 phases of the motor (AB, AC, BC), when measured at 25C with an Instek GOM 802 milliohm meter. The stator stack length must be a minimum of 19.7mm and a maximum of 21.0mm. Only 12.3 mm diameter rotors will be permitted in 25.5 Spec motors and the diameter must measure 12.30 +/-.05 mm. The rotor magnet length must be between a minimum of 25.0mm and a maximum of 26.0mm, not including any balancing material. 8.4.7.2.6

ROAR Spec 21.5 motor: The three slotted stator must be wound with 21.5 turns of two strands of a maximum diameter of 0.724mm per slot. No motor will be approved with resistance less than 54.6 milliohms* between any 2 phases of the motor (AB, AC, BC), when measured at 25C with an Instek GOM 802 milliohm meter. 8.4.7.2.7

ROAR Spec 17.5 motor: The three slotted stator must be wound with 17.5 turns of 2 strands of a maximum diameter of .813 mm per slot. No motor will be approved with resistance less than 35.4 milliohms* between any 2 phases of the motor (AB, AC, BC), when measured at 25C with an Instek GOM 802 milliohm meter. 8.4.7.2.8

ROAR Spec 13.5 motor: The three slotted stator must be wound with 13.5 turns of 2 strands of a maximum diameter of 0.724mm and two strands of a maximum diameter of 0.574mm per slot. No motor will be approved with resistance less than 20.6 milliohms* between any 2 phases of the motor (AB, AC, BC), when measured at 25C with an Instek GOM 802 milliohm meter. 8.4.7.2.9 ROAR Spec 10.5 motor: The three slotted stator must be wound with

10.5 turns of 2 strands of a maximum diameter of 0.813mm and two strands of a maximum diameter of 0.643mm per slot. No motor will be approved with a resistance less than 14.6 milliohms* between any 2 phases of the motor (AB, AC, BC), when measured at 25C with an Instek GOM 802 milliohm meter.
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Old 03-14-2018, 11:37 AM
  #18908  
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The milliohm meter I have (hioki RM3544) has temp presets. So I can set it to 25C and not have to worry about the fluctuating temperatures.
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Old 03-14-2018, 01:07 PM
  #18909  
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Default Club Meeting Tonight

A reminder that we have a club meeting tonight!

Wedgwood Broiler
7pm


See you there.
Attached Files

Last edited by PutAwayWet; 03-14-2018 at 06:05 PM.
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Old 03-14-2018, 02:02 PM
  #18910  
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Originally Posted by JPG333 View Post
8.4.7.2.4 Effective 01/01/2018, rotors for spec wind motors will be identified with the manufacturers name or logo and the unique part number of the rotor. Also all rotors should have markings on the flat portion of the output shaft which allows for identification of the rotor without removal from the motor. 8.4.7.2.5

ROAR Spec 25.5 motor: The three slotted stator must be wound with 25.5 turns of two strands of wire with a maximum diameter of .643mm per slot. No motor will be approved with a resistance less than 101 milliohms between any 2 phases of the motor (AB, AC, BC), when measured at 25C with an Instek GOM 802 milliohm meter. The stator stack length must be a minimum of 19.7mm and a maximum of 21.0mm. Only 12.3 mm diameter rotors will be permitted in 25.5 Spec motors and the diameter must measure 12.30 +/-.05 mm. The rotor magnet length must be between a minimum of 25.0mm and a maximum of 26.0mm, not including any balancing material. 8.4.7.2.6

ROAR Spec 21.5 motor: The three slotted stator must be wound with 21.5 turns of two strands of a maximum diameter of 0.724mm per slot. No motor will be approved with resistance less than 54.6 milliohms* between any 2 phases of the motor (AB, AC, BC), when measured at 25C with an Instek GOM 802 milliohm meter. 8.4.7.2.7

ROAR Spec 17.5 motor: The three slotted stator must be wound with 17.5 turns of 2 strands of a maximum diameter of .813 mm per slot. No motor will be approved with resistance less than 35.4 milliohms* between any 2 phases of the motor (AB, AC, BC), when measured at 25C with an Instek GOM 802 milliohm meter. 8.4.7.2.8

ROAR Spec 13.5 motor: The three slotted stator must be wound with 13.5 turns of 2 strands of a maximum diameter of 0.724mm and two strands of a maximum diameter of 0.574mm per slot. No motor will be approved with resistance less than 20.6 milliohms* between any 2 phases of the motor (AB, AC, BC), when measured at 25C with an Instek GOM 802 milliohm meter. 8.4.7.2.9 ROAR Spec 10.5 motor: The three slotted stator must be wound with

10.5 turns of 2 strands of a maximum diameter of 0.813mm and two strands of a maximum diameter of 0.643mm per slot. No motor will be approved with a resistance less than 14.6 milliohms* between any 2 phases of the motor (AB, AC, BC), when measured at 25C with an Instek GOM 802 milliohm meter.
Keep in mind, all those numbers listed for 21.5, 17.5, 13.5, and 10.5 are really for manufacturers, not for tech. The tested value at the time of approval is the number we need from roar. All motors are to be within 1% of the tested approval IR. For instance if a motor was approved at 57 milliohms on a 21.5 and you have a motor at 55 milliohms....your motor is illegal even though it is over roar's minimum for submission.

8.4.2.5 Resistance measurements will be made during the approval process on all spec wind motors.
The approval listing for each spec wind motor will specify the minimum resistance obtained during the
approval process for each motor part number submitted for approval. At event inspections, spec wind
motors will not be allowed in competition which have a measured resistance less than 99% of the
resistance listed in the approval data for that motor when measured at 25 degrees Centigrade using an
Instek GOM 802 milliohm meter.


This is why trackside tech is pretty worthless, we don't have the approval resistance numbers and they don't give those numbers to the manufacturers who submitted them either.
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Old 03-14-2018, 02:09 PM
  #18911  
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Originally Posted by Carnage9270 View Post
Keep in mind, all those numbers listed for 21.5, 17.5, 13.5, and 10.5 are really for manufacturers, not for tech. The tested value at the time of approval is the number we need from roar. All motors are to be within 1% of the tested approval IR. For instance if a motor was approved at 57 milliohms on a 21.5 and you have a motor at 55 milliohms....your motor is illegal even though it is over roar's minimum for submission.

8.4.2.5 Resistance measurements will be made during the approval process on all spec wind motors.
The approval listing for each spec wind motor will specify the minimum resistance obtained during the
approval process for each motor part number submitted for approval. At event inspections, spec wind
motors will not be allowed in competition which have a measured resistance less than 99% of the
resistance listed in the approval data for that motor when measured at 25 degrees Centigrade using an
Instek GOM 802 milliohm meter.


This is why trackside tech is pretty worthless, we don't have the approval resistance numbers.
Why can't those numbers be for manufacturers and tech?
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Old 03-14-2018, 02:10 PM
  #18912  
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Originally Posted by malkiy View Post
Why can't those numbers be for manufacturers and tech?
Updated the post, sorry Mike.
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Old 03-14-2018, 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by malkiy View Post
Why can't those numbers be for manufacturers and tech?
Basically, anything more than 1% lower than the submitted IR resistance means significant changes were made to the motor since it's approval and needs to be resubmitted. 1% is actually a lot when it comes to windings. Doesn't seem like it is, but it really is.
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Old 03-14-2018, 02:19 PM
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Note to this:

It's pretty hard to push lower than the minimum values roar has listed and still make measurement tolerances on stator stack length etc.

The exception to that is the 25.5, it's extremely easy to make a 25.5 waaaaay under the minimum IR. Manufacturers actually have to pay close attention when making a 25.5.
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Old 03-15-2018, 11:19 AM
  #18915  
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Default Specs and Rules Update

A quick summary of the major specs and rules changes discussed at last night's club meeting.

Scale Spec: to take effect at the start of our 2018/2019 indoor season, we are moving to a single-make 25.5 brushless motor for the class. The club is batch buying motors from Maclan and reselling to clubbies for $60. That’s $60 for a premium motor and a major savings for our racers. In addition to the motor, we will also be introducing a maximum rollout which is easily and quickly tech’d on a rollout board trackside. It will correspond to a target FDR limit, but we are of course aware of variations in tire and pulley diameters, inadvertent or otherwise, that may contribute to slight differences in power and RPM at the contact patches. So, an FDR limit is a convenient way to think of it, but be aware that the actual tech will be on a rollout board.

Stock Touring: to take effect at the start of our 2018/2019 indoor season, we are moving to ROAR-approved 21.5 motors for the class.

Tamiya Euro Truck: we will offer the class this outdoor season at Seatac R/C Raceway. TCS rules will apply.
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