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Old 01-01-2009, 11:41 AM   #1
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Default WGT drivers only.

I decided to start a new thread because i want peoples opinions on a few matters reguarding the WGT cars and didn't want it associated with anyones track to avoid any confusion with tracks currect rules.

It is my opinion, that controlling the speed of the these cars is very important to the success of the class, Using some results from the 08 Sizzler, Jeff Kuney went 27 / 8.01 with a fast lap of 17.06 in 13.5 sedan. Brain Bodine went 28 / 8.01 with a fast lap of 16.3 in 13.5 1/12. So the question IS, is 4 cell 13.5 to fast to build the class on. the WGT cars will be heavier and easier to drive then the 1/12.

I know many of the drivers already have lipo for power and WILL NOT buy a Nimh battery. Using the 17.5 sedan class as a guide, fast lap was 18.3, so a 7.4 lipo with 17.5 will probably be around 13.5 sedan or 1/12 scale speed. IS THAT TO FAST TO GROW THE CLASS,

One thought i had was to just say run whatever, and the "class" will decide if you need to gear up or down to keep things even, but that might encourage some sandbagging so i don't think it would work.

Opinions?? thoughts?? wants?? needs??
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Old 01-01-2009, 12:55 PM   #2
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No running a "WHATEVER" class. An agreed upon set of rules that can be used regionally or at least in the greater Seattle/Tacoma/Everett area should be used. I also don't think we ought to try and reinvent the wheel with the rules. There are already rules that the national events are running that seem to work just fine.

For batteries and motor 13.5/4 cell is drivable and really should be the standard for the class. You can pick up decent cells for $30 to $40 a pack and really you don't need more than 2 packs.

But for club racing I would be willing to accept a mix of Lipo and Nihm as long as the speeds were somewhat close. Probably 21.5/ lipo will be the ticket and if Crosier wants to race then 10.5/ single cell.

Tires should be World GT spec tires period. Carpet or Asphalt.

Minimum weight should be enforced if Lipo is allowed.
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Old 01-01-2009, 02:55 PM   #3
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Did yall get a chance to test the 10.5 single cell vs 13.5 4cell?

Thanks,
Brad
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Old 01-01-2009, 04:22 PM   #4
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Did yall get a chance to test the 10.5 single cell vs 13.5 4cell?

Thanks,
Brad
Not yet, been waiting 3 weeks for the battery, and that is why people shop on the Internet, would have had it by now. BBBBBBBBBuuuTTTT NNNNNOOOOOO, I ordered from my LHS.
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Old 01-02-2009, 11:12 AM   #5
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The most important thing for any class is that the rules be well defined before the program starts.

I am one of the guys you mentioned that has switched to LIPO and refuses to rebuy NIMH batts & equipment. Like 12th scale the WGT cars appeal to me but I have stayed out the class because of the 4cell battery requirement. Running 2 different motor specs depending on battery sounds like a perfect solution on the surface but we all know 1 combination will prove superior forcing the other group to buy more, switch over, or fall out of the class completely. The best option would be to poll those interested in the class and spec whatever battery config the majority want for the 09 season.

The motor spec should NOT be the same for all tracks. All tracks are not equal in size & circuit design, larger circuits designed to accommodate gas cars should spec a motor 1 step faster than that used on the smaller tracks to retain a similar challenge & feeling of speed. Going with a single motor for all will either make the cars too fast for some on the smaller circuits or boring on the larger tracks.

WGT spec tires are a good idea for all tracks however should any track's surface be found unsuitable for them a working alternate tire spec should be used for that track.

Mark
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Old 01-02-2009, 12:02 PM   #6
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The most important thing for any class is that the rules be well defined before the program starts.

I am one of the guys you mentioned that has switched to LIPO and refuses to rebuy NIMH batts & equipment. Like 12th scale the WGT cars appeal to me but I have stayed out the class because of the 4cell battery requirement. Running 2 different motor specs depending on battery sounds like a perfect solution on the surface but we all know 1 combination will prove superior forcing the other group to buy more, switch over, or fall out of the class completely. The best option would be to poll those interested in the class and spec whatever battery config the majority want for the 09 season.

The motor spec should NOT be the same for all tracks. All tracks are not equal in size & circuit design, larger circuits designed to accommodate gas cars should spec a motor 1 step faster than that used on the smaller tracks to retain a similar challenge & feeling of speed. Going with a single motor for all will either make the cars too fast for some on the smaller circuits or boring on the larger tracks.

WGT spec tires are a good idea for all tracks however should any track's surface be found unsuitable for them a working alternate tire spec should be used for that track.

Mark
Mark you made some good points but I don't agree with the motor suggestion. While it seems logical to use a different motor at different size tracks i see a few problems with this.

1) Not everyone has the budget to purchase a different motor for each track. While those people dedicated to a particular race program are not going to have a problem with this, those that race at other tracks will be less inclined to venture to a different track if they have to buy a new motor to race. Take a look at the crossover in racers between the T/A programs at SIR/Everett/FWR. Yes there are crossovers but it is the exception and not the rule.

2) Just because the track can handle the faster motor does not mean the same tight racing will take place. Once again I will use T/A at FW as an example. While there were some good individual battles that took place the field was for the most part spread out. With the WGT cars I felt the same thing happened at TZII when we switched to the 10.5. Yeah the cars handled the track just fine but there was not the same close racing that happened at RCPlus. And it was even worse at SIR with the 10.5.

Just my opinion, your mileage may vary.
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Old 01-02-2009, 12:51 PM   #7
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The best option would be to poll those interested in the class and spec whatever battery config the majority want for the 09 season.
Mark
tis the reason for the thread
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Old 01-02-2009, 01:08 PM   #8
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The WGT cars are a lot of fun. I have a suggestion for the short term at SIR. Considering that the 4cell/10.5 seems a little fast for SIR, how about...

4 cell/13.5 with min weight
or
2 cell lipo/21.5 with min weight
or
2 cell lipo/silvercan no min weight
or
1 cell lipo/10.5 no min weight

These setups should be pretty close speedwise - (actually I'm not so sure about the 1 cell/10.5 but anyway... that should be fun to see)
Just for SIR - maybe we could organize a little club race and compare these setups and have some fun

Like I said, this is just for SIR. Racing these setups at a different track is a whole different discussion.
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Old 01-02-2009, 01:09 PM   #9
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Whats a WGT? I have no idea and am interested but do not know the chassis specs and logistics. I assume pan car? bodies? Help a noivice on roader become interested. maybe we could have a class down south to attract some more on roaders this summer! thanks Jon
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Old 01-02-2009, 01:15 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by JROCK4224 View Post
Whats a WGT? I have no idea and am interested but do not know the chassis specs and logistics. I assume pan car? bodies? Help a noivice on roader become interested. maybe we could have a class down south to attract some more on roaders this summer! thanks Jon
1/10th scale pan car. Spec tires:. Loads of fun!

Here's the rules:

http://www.intchamps.com/WGT_2008_Rules.pdf
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Old 01-02-2009, 01:17 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by GaryA View Post
The WGT cars are a lot of fun. I have a suggestion for the short term at SIR. Considering that the 4cell/10.5 seems a little fast for SIR, how about...

4 cell/13.5 with min weight
or
2 cell lipo/21.5 with min weight
or
2 cell lipo/silvercan no min weight
or
1 cell lipo/10.5 no min weight

These setups should be pretty close speedwise - (actually I'm not so sure about the 1 cell/10.5 but anyway... that should be fun to see)
Just for SIR - maybe we could organize a little club race and compare these setups and have some fun

Like I said, this is just for SIR. Racing these setups at a different track is a whole different discussion.
I would be unopposed to running this package at any track with the exception that 10.5 single cell should be at min weight.
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Old 01-02-2009, 01:18 PM   #12
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Mark you made some good points but I don't agree with the motor suggestion. While it seems logical to use a different motor at different size tracks i see a few problems with this.

1) Not everyone has the budget to purchase a different motor for each track. While those people dedicated to a particular race program are not going to have a problem with this, those that race at other tracks will be less inclined to venture to a different track if they have to buy a new motor to race. Take a look at the crossover in racers between the T/A programs at SIR/Everett/FWR. Yes there are crossovers but it is the exception and not the rule.

2) Just because the track can handle the faster motor does not mean the same tight racing will take place. Once again I will use T/A at FW as an example. While there were some good individual battles that took place the field was for the most part spread out. With the WGT cars I felt the same thing happened at TZII when we switched to the 10.5. Yeah the cars handled the track just fine but there was not the same close racing that happened at RCPlus. And it was even worse at SIR with the 10.5.

Just my opinion, your mileage may vary.
the number of guys that will actually race a club race somewhere other then the home track can be counted on one hand.

i think most of the guys that currently have a WGT car also have a 1/12 scale so they have Nimh batteries that can be used in both cars. however like i said there are some that have lipos and will only run lipos, and like mark said, there is going to be a difference or advantage that the lipo combo or nimh combo has over the other. one group is gonna have to change no matter what, OR maybe if testing with the single cell is successfull we can all run those with a 10.5. only time will tell, but i think its important for now that we all keep a open mind and be willing to give and or take in order to grow the class.
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Old 01-02-2009, 01:23 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by JROCK4224 View Post
Whats a WGT? I have no idea and am interested but do not know the chassis specs and logistics. I assume pan car? bodies? Help a noivice on roader become interested. maybe we could have a class down south to attract some more on roaders this summer! thanks Jon
check out, www.teamcrc.com look for the gen x 10

this may be a more direct link http://www.teamcrc.com/crc/modules.p...category_id=12

or check out www.bmiracing.com for the 10R

or AE's 10R5

as far as bodies, nothing set in stone for FW next year, but probably any 200mm body, other then the protoform lola
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Old 01-02-2009, 01:33 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by mkdut View Post
1/10th scale pan car. Spec tires:. Loads of fun!

Here's the rules:

http://www.intchamps.com/WGT_2008_Rules.pdf
That's a damn good set of rules to follow.
There's a set of rules just like that for Trans Am, and if they had been followed the class would have grown.

There is not one class where different motor/battery combinations is used in any major racing series, must be a good reason why.
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Old 01-02-2009, 01:34 PM   #15
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the number of guys that will actually race a club race somewhere other then the home track can be counted on one hand.

i think most of the guys that currently have a WGT car also have a 1/12 scale so they have Nimh batteries that can be used in both cars. however like i said there are some that have lipos and will only run lipos, and like mark said, there is going to be a difference or advantage that the lipo combo or nimh combo has over the other. one group is gonna have to change no matter what, OR maybe if testing with the single cell is successfull we can all run those with a 10.5. only time will tell, but i think its important for now that we all keep a open mind and be willing to give and or take in order to grow the class.
I think currently about 90% of the guys that are running WGT are also running 1/12th but there are more that are sitting on the sideline waiting for everything to sort out.

See my above post for how open minded I am. Give and take is a two way street.
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