Verndog

iTrader: (16)

This issue keeps coming up at a couple local tracks. I personally think the IFMAR start is a crock of crud. Recently at SIR I asked Doug why the IFMAR starts with 4 racers, I was told "its up to the race director". Wow...you'd think there would be set rules for this...like 7-8 racer limit then B mains ect...but there isn't. It's up to whomever. Seems the same at FW, depends on day and mood.

Why even consider this start?? Just to save an occational restart we take the fun out of "real racing" from the start?

IFMAR starts need to go, and set max # of racers need to be stuck to IMO...lets air it out, then convince "the race directors" the preferend standard.

Sterling Racer

IMO, IMAR starts are for qualifying at big races, national etc.

Club races should be heads-up.

.02

Exterminator

One thing that has worked well at some of the NCT events in the gas classes is a live loop type start. The loop is on a countdown during warmup at the tone the loop goes live. People should spread themselves out on the track to hit the loop. This can make the race program go faster. So along that line do the same thing for the electrics let them do some warm up. Then Start the loop and they go. each will be on thier own clock for qualifiying similar to a IFMAR start. This way they can figure out for themselves where to be on the track in relation to other racers.

OR just go on the tone. It's just club racing. and learning to pass and be passed is a valuable skill that you don't learn in IFMAR quals.

Leopard1

I'm paying attention here .... this is still an issue we keep debating.

Hope a lot a racers chime in here.

gregthecarguy

iTrader: (5)

I race at Big Dads in Portland and we use the Ifmar style for Quals, and Heads up for Mains I believe. I prefer this to all heads up for a few reasons.

1. The "Real Racing" argument seems a bit inaccurate, do any major race series use heads up for Qualifying? I dont beleive so, you Qualify against the clock. Example -At the scheduled time NASCAR qualifying will begin
Cars take to the track one at a time. Drivers normally start from pit road and have less than one full lap to get up to speed. The drivers get the green flag the first time they cross the start/finish line. Then drivers get two laps to set their best time, taking the fastest of the two as their official NASCAR qualifying time.




2. If you run all heads up whats the difference between quals and Mains? why not just have 3 mains instead of 2 quals and a main?

I think the point of Ifmar style starts are to make it more possible to get a claen Qualifying time to see who is the fast driver and who is lucky, all the major "Real Racing" series do it against the clock so if you want Real Racing then Ifmar is real.

Scottrik

iTrader: (261)

I've done a lot of both--still prefer IFMAR for qualifying. In a perfect world where drivers are maintaining a sense of perspective (i.e. not hell-bent on "winning" qualifying in the first turn or two) "heads-up" would be ok but never perfect.

Two arguments against "heads-up":

a) assigned starting positions ALWAYS seem to favor the RD's pet(s) or local heros. In "heads-up" the clock starts on the tone whether you're at the front of the line or 2 seconds back. In IFMAR the clock doesn't start until you hit the line, KINDA LIKE REAL QUALIFYING.

b) similar to the above re: who gets sorted/positioned where, whoever gets the front position(s) in the first qualifier have an advantage all the way through while those who get set mid-to-back in the first qualifier are always playing catch-up from the get go as they're already time behind when the horn blows PLUS they're more likely to get hacked by that guy who's going to win qualifying.

The "time saver" is a moot point. It takes ONE restart (ala the SIR system) to offset a days worth of time "lost" to IFMAR starts.

slidejob26

iTrader: (3)

Supercross & sprint cars run heads up heat races. If you finish in the top so many you go to the main. If not you go to a lcq or lower main, if still don't make it to the big show you go home. I think those are both cosidered "real" racing
At our track in Burlington, we are running live loop qualifying and heads up mains. Everyone seems to like it so far. JMO

loriding69

iTrader: (25)

I have ran both head's up and IFMAR. IMO I would like to see Live Loop getting some action in electric. It would make it to where each person can be more responsible for there lap time because of they started not when told to be started. I haven't done a live loop start but at Wenatchee i seen it done and i was impressed. So here is my take:
1. Live Loop (Qualifiers with more than 4-5 cars)
2. IFMAR (Qualifiers)
3. Heads up (Qualifiers with less than 5 cars and all Mains)

Scottrik

iTrader: (261)

I've been to quite a few World of Outlaws events over the years...and not ONE of them has started without single car on track QUALIFYING. Qualifying is each car against the clock and, if I'm not mistaken, sets the first six(?) positions on the grid for the main.

If you want heat races I'd consider that kinda like RC triple-mains.

JROCK4224

iTrader: (8)

hey i just want it the same everywhere so when i travel to go race i dont have to be a noob and ask the guy next to me how the races start. i like the idea of live loop and would be willing to try it. seems anymore people have the driving idea i used to show......if I'm first to the first corner then i win ...right? NO! To often i hear compliaints abou tthe heads up ruining qual runs. if we went with one region 11 set up then track records could be compeared and we all would be under the same impression when we compare times. I even like the idea i discussed with a few racers....draw for qualifying and race triple a mains for low turnouts.......its fun we did it once and it proves consistency

mtveten

iTrader: (29)

Live loop is essentially an IFMAR start for nitro and is the most fair & reliable way to do so. In general I find IFMAR quals to be more consistent and typically cleaner making them better for the racers. At exhibition races where the focus is on spectators heads-up starts are more exciting to watch.

Mark

mkdut

iTrader: (19)

My 0.02

Big events(regional races, nats, big 1 & 2 day events): IFMAR Starts. Maybe even live loop though I have never run this format. Resorts amongst all qualifiers, not just your heat.

Club Races: Heads up. No restarts. Builds excitement for any spectators and new people and is easier for them to understand. Better practice for running in traffic. If you stop doing restarts then maybe some people will figure out that it's not won in the first corner or on the first lap. Eventually restarts won't be needed because everyone will take it easy on the first lap.

Leopard1

I can see the reasoning behind the various qualifying

Has anyone been in a rc Christmas tree type tounament?

And if so was it fun? ... our timing soft has mulpiple tourny options that I'd like to try for 2 or 3 day event sorta like baseball tournys I did as a kid that were really fun.

mtveten

iTrader: (29)

The live loop method is IFMAR for nitro and is locally used by Rose City and now FW.

The std trans-am start method is heads-up so I would say we should do the same in our region as well.

IFMAR is the norm for 12th scale & electric sedan and is most used though the country including our region.

My offroad experience is limited but form what I have seen it looks like heads-up is common for electric.

Mark

slidejob26

iTrader: (3)

The single car qualifying sets up the heat RACES, first six to a scramble to decide starting order in the main. I am just saying there is forms of racing that set up the main event by heads up races. Supercross does the same thing, you have to qualify just to race the heat races. If your not fast enough in qualifying you don't even get in a heat. The point is you can't compare all forms of racing to one another, every one just seems to go to the NASCAR well when ever racing comparisons take place.