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Old 04-26-2006, 03:44 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRFTIM
Still struggling guys, i set the shims up on the thrust bearing sleeve to 0.6mm and when I put the other two ball races in and tighten everything up it presses against the clutch.
You must be doing something wrong......

For "gap" settings you should only leave out 1 bearing (the biggest of the 2), the one which goes against the spring nut.
Then after your "gap" is set, put in this bearing, and eliminate the endplay by putting the smallest shims behind this bearing (so in between the bearing and the spring nut) it's so easy....
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Old 04-26-2006, 03:45 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by GrandeGixxer
Thats why I like the Mugen clutches. So easy to set up and much more consistant.
But still it is a copy of the original centax system invented by Serpent....
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Old 04-26-2006, 05:33 PM   #33
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Ive gotta chime in on the crappy R40 Centax. Ive never used a centax before , but we have a whole forum worth of guys who have trouble with their centax.

Not only that a few of us actually swapped to the mugen mtx-3 clutch setup. And of course once thats done the car works flawless.

I pose a challenge to anyone. If you can figure out how to make the r40 clutch to engage at low rpm. Ill give you a some free gear or something. Im not kidding. Some of you guys are experts im sure have dealt with multiple variants of the centax. But I seriously challenge you to try and get the r40 clutch to engage at low rpm without slipping like mad.

Speaking of mad , thats what the r40 clutch will do for you.
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Old 04-26-2006, 09:20 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artificial-I
Ive gotta chime in on the crappy R40 Centax. Ive never used a centax before , but we have a whole forum worth of guys who have trouble with their centax.

Not only that a few of us actually swapped to the mugen mtx-3 clutch setup. And of course once thats done the car works flawless.

I pose a challenge to anyone. If you can figure out how to make the r40 clutch to engage at low rpm. Ill give you a some free gear or something. Im not kidding. Some of you guys are experts im sure have dealt with multiple variants of the centax. But I seriously challenge you to try and get the r40 clutch to engage at low rpm without slipping like mad.

Speaking of mad , thats what the r40 clutch will do for you.

I don't know what the R40 clutch is like... whether it like Serpent's Centax 1, 2 or 3. But it's a bit of a catch-22 trying to get any clutch to engage at low RPM without slipping like mad. But why would you want hard, solid engagement at lower RPM anyways? It goes against physics... at low RPM you cannot get a lot of power down (with a 2-stroke engine) since the engine is not in its best rev/power range.

Picture it this way... sure you can make the clutch engage at low RPM... that's easy. But at low RPM there is not a lot of centrifugal force keeping the flyweights pushed against the shoe to keep the clutch engaged well.

It's a trade-off... low RPM engagement and softer engagement (more slippage), or higher RPM engagement and harder engagement (no slippage).

Here's some thoughts... when you are dealing with typical pivoting flyweights (trailing shoe) like those of the standard Centax-2...

Want low-RPM engagement? Make the flyweights lighter by drilling holes in them (all equally of course). Lighter flyweights fly out faster and engage faster, but watch out! Their reduced weight means they have less force and pressure behind them, so they will slip more, too. Swing a ping-pong ball at the end of a string... it takes very little swinging speed to get the ping-pong ball up, and if it hits someone in the head it won't hurt very much because it doesn't weigh a lot.

Want higher-RPM engagement with a hard punch? Add weight to the end of each flyweight (opposite end from the pin). The higher mass makes the flyweight react slower, but when it engages it engages HARD. Swing a bowling ball at the end of a rope... it takes a LOT more swinging speed to get the bowling ball up, and if it hits someone in the head it'll probably take their head off because... well let's face it... it's a swinging bowling ball.

Here's something that may fill the bill, though. Serpent recently released a brand new set of machined PTFE flyweights for the Centax-2 clutch. These are machined rather than molded. But the BIG difference is that they are leading flyweights (pivot on REAR pin), rather than trailing flyweights (pivot on FRONT pin - like original pivoting flyweights). Leading flyweights engage quicker (at lower RPM) than trailing flyweights. So if these work... someone may need to pony up and cover their bet...

Cheers, all !

Sorry for the long post.

Last edited by GlennCauley; 04-27-2006 at 12:13 PM.
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Old 04-27-2006, 01:03 PM   #35
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Is there a complete centax setup that can swapped into a Kyosho FW-05R or 05RR? My 05R/RR hybrid currently has .8M gearing.

Tony
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Old 04-27-2006, 01:15 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sharkonwheels
Is there a complete centax setup that can swapped into a Kyosho FW-05R or 05RR? My 05R/RR hybrid currently has .8M gearing.

Tony
K-Factory UFO?
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Old 04-27-2006, 01:20 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M7H
But still it is a copy of the original centax system invented by Serpent....
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Old 04-27-2006, 02:30 PM   #38
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Well in the instructions that I have read, it states that just the thrust bearing should be put in to the setup!!!

I have put a thinner washer to increase end play but its a 10 mm diameter washer not a errrr 6 mm washer would this make a difference??


ps is it easy to fit a Mugen Clutch????
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Old 04-27-2006, 03:15 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by performula
K-Factory UFO?
What car is that for? So I can find it on the K-Factory web site, and get a part number.

Thanks!
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Old 04-27-2006, 03:27 PM   #40
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Found it - V1-RRR That'll work on the FW-05R/RR?

What of this:
http://www.gsracing.com/web/page.asp...atid=44&id=188

Fiorini Power Clutch?

Can't seem to find the K-Factory anywhere. Part # is K1914
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Old 04-27-2006, 04:58 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRFTIM
Still struggling guys, i set the shims up on the thrust bearing sleeve to 0.6mm and when I put the other two ball races in and tighten everything up it presses against the clutch.
When you have the whole clutch together you should have the .6mm of end play.
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Old 04-28-2006, 06:28 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by THE DOCTOR
When you have the whole clutch together you should have the .6mm of end play.
Uhhmmm... close but not quite right. Endplay is different from clutch gap.
When the entire clutch is together, ready to run, you should have barely any endplay (0.1mm). However, there should be a 0.6mm clutch gap between the clutch shoe and the endbell.

If you perform the assembly/shimming in the following order, the clutch gap should be fine, the end play should be minimal, and there is no way that the clutchbell will be pressing against the clutch shoe.

1. Install the following:
0.5mm washer behind flywheel cone -- tapered cone -- flywheel -- flywheel nut -- flyweights -- clutch shoe rear plate -- clutch shoe -- spring cup (in clutch shoe) -- tension spring -- spring preload collar -- clutchbell w/ outermost ballbearing -- thrustbearing assembly -- machine screw. You leave OUT the following: innermost ballbearing in clutchbell, and small spacer between ballbearings.

2. Set clutch gap to 0.6mm -- using shims on thrustbearing collar.

3. Remove the following:
Machine screw -- thrustbearing assembly -- clutchbell.

4. Install the following:
Innermost ballbearing (on crankshaft) -- small spacer -- clutchbell (with outermost ballbearing in it) -- thrustbearing assembly -- machine screw.
Make sure you use good grease in the thrustbearing, every time you work on it. Mugen Super Grease is VERY good... it's very thick, lubes well, and lasts a long time.

5. Check the END PLAY... this is the amount that the clutchbell moves on the crankshaft. There should be barely any movement along the crankshaft (0.1mm) but the clutchbell should have some play. It should not be locked in place on the crankshaft, as this puts pressure on bearings and will cause dragging and premature wear/failure.

6. To adjust the end play, you will use the tiny, thin-wall shims. Remove the clutchbell and all bearings (and spacers) (as an assembly), and put these tiny shims on the crankshaft right atop the flywheel nut. Then re-assemble everything and check again.

7. When everything is back together, hold the motor so the crankshaft is pointing at the ground, and spin the clutchbell... it should spin freely (for more than 5sec)... but this depends also on the heaviness of the grease you use in the thrustbearing. If the clutchbell doesn't spin well but seems to bind, you may not have enough endplay or the bearings may be bad.

Last edited by GlennCauley; 04-28-2006 at 08:49 AM.
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Old 04-28-2006, 09:33 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artificial-I
Ive gotta chime in on the crappy R40 Centax. Ive never used a centax before , but we have a whole forum worth of guys who have trouble with their centax.

Not only that a few of us actually swapped to the mugen mtx-3 clutch setup. And of course once thats done the car works flawless.

I pose a challenge to anyone. If you can figure out how to make the r40 clutch to engage at low rpm. Ill give you a some free gear or something. Im not kidding. Some of you guys are experts im sure have dealt with multiple variants of the centax. But I seriously challenge you to try and get the r40 clutch to engage at low rpm without slipping like mad.

Speaking of mad , thats what the r40 clutch will do for you.
For my RB V12 Rody 3 port std I used one .5mm shime behind the collet, the adjuster nut was screwed down about 1.5mm and for shims I used two silver and two brass. That setup on both my MT12 and RB V12 Rody offered me SICK acceleration and perfect engagement. Since I did encounter rust on some aprts after not lubing it when left for a long time, I just swapped over to the CD3 pro clutch. My LHS took to long for getting me the item and I couldn't wait any longer. Regardless I never had a problem with the R40 clutch truthfully. Even though the spring is softer, I just tightened it down a little more. Both my friend and I ran the same stock clutch and after sharing my secret, he liked the car even better.



I no longer have the R40 though...hehe.
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Old 04-28-2006, 01:25 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GlennCauley
Uhhmmm... close but not quite right. Endplay is different from clutch gap.
When the entire clutch is together, ready to run, you should have barely any endplay (0.1mm). However, there should be a 0.6mm clutch gap between the clutch shoe and the endbell.

If you perform the assembly/shimming in the following order, the clutch gap should be fine, the end play should be minimal, and there is no way that the clutchbell will be pressing against the clutch shoe.

1. Install the following:
0.5mm washer behind flywheel cone -- tapered cone -- flywheel -- flywheel nut -- flyweights -- clutch shoe rear plate -- clutch shoe -- spring cup (in clutch shoe) -- tension spring -- spring preload collar -- clutchbell w/ outermost ballbearing -- thrustbearing assembly -- machine screw. You leave OUT the following: innermost ballbearing in clutchbell, and small spacer between ballbearings.

2. Set clutch gap to 0.6mm -- using shims on thrustbearing collar.

3. Remove the following:
Machine screw -- thrustbearing assembly -- clutchbell.

4. Install the following:
Innermost ballbearing (on crankshaft) -- small spacer -- clutchbell (with outermost ballbearing in it) -- thrustbearing assembly -- machine screw.
Make sure you use good grease in the thrustbearing, every time you work on it. Mugen Super Grease is VERY good... it's very thick, lubes well, and lasts a long time.

5. Check the END PLAY... this is the amount that the clutchbell moves on the crankshaft. There should be barely any movement along the crankshaft (0.1mm) but the clutchbell should have some play. It should not be locked in place on the crankshaft, as this puts pressure on bearings and will cause dragging and premature wear/failure.

6. To adjust the end play, you will use the tiny, thin-wall shims. Remove the clutchbell and all bearings (and spacers) (as an assembly), and put these tiny shims on the crankshaft right atop the flywheel nut. Then re-assemble everything and check again.

7. When everything is back together, hold the motor so the crankshaft is pointing at the ground, and spin the clutchbell... it should spin freely (for more than 5sec)... but this depends also on the heaviness of the grease you use in the thrustbearing. If the clutchbell doesn't spin well but seems to bind, you may not have enough endplay or the bearings may be bad.
Cheers Glen thats great i seemed to fo cracked it!!

It was the spacers to take up end play that were way out........I have used 10mm diameter washers instead of the 6mm:7mm will this affect the bearing inthe long run or is this just fine ( please tell me this is ok as the motors in the serpent now)

Thanks again guys this really is a cool site and you guys know your S!:;T
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Old 04-28-2006, 01:29 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRFTIM
please tell me this is ok as the motors in the serpent now

Thanks again guys this really is a cool site and you guys know your S!:;T
Take of the 1st and 2nd gear (10 seconds work) and you will be able to remove the clutch, without removing the engine from the car.....
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