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Old 03-07-2003, 06:50 PM   #76
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Old 03-07-2003, 10:02 PM   #77
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Old 03-08-2003, 02:04 AM   #78
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I cannot agree more with Boomer and Dennis for some reasons.

Like Boomer, wanted to know more and experiment with some information I gathered from some sources (Dennis, Macdizzy, Manticore, others who may can't remember). Got some information and I applied to some engines, I recognize that I gathered some information from commercial engine tuners that I've paid like JP, RB for putting some of them, mosty about timing.

The idea of getting some power making some modifications for personal use is starting to pay some results (after some ruined sleeves, cranks and other parts.... after more than 600US$ on spare parts) my engines start to be quick and probably I need to fine grain some aspects (finishing of them). It's hard to get information mostly because weird things happened to Dennis and others and fear about what happened in the present: a massive copycat explossion of their works.

Like Dennis. I'm a systems engineer and programmer. Last year I was ripped by a 'wise guy' who pirated my work (more than 2000 hours of programming). I know what Dennis feels and I agree with them. Dirty manouvers from others made that we cannot get an engine from you or others. Only I can expect is someday you'll start to cutting engines and I can get one from you.

Sorry if someone don't likes this, but IMHO and know how feels Dennis.
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Old 03-08-2003, 08:10 AM   #79
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yeah, I'm a systems engineer and programmer and other thangs too. If you can show me some code that is not based on someone else's code in some way I will be impressed. Did you write it in assembler?

If you produce something that is original and valueable enough then you package it as a product and there are ways to prevent it's piracy. But the large majority of extremely dynamic and extensible systems and applications are OPEN SOURCE.

Why is linux so popular? Mysql? Because people can learn from others and extend upon it. If EVERYONE has this, "I built it off someone's else's base so it's mine" mentality the landscape would be totally different.

Maybe I could understand if Dennis manufacturered engines, but he's making modifications to a product made by someone else. If copyrighting is such an issue I suppose novarossi needs to be getting checks from Dennis everytime a ritchey sells?

My main point is I don't see where Dennis is being hurt. Sure if one guy stole from him then address that one guy. But Dennis already cannot possibly fill all the order requests he would have if he still did motors....so now he does them only for his team drivers and himself, and will sell a few on ebay that will likely sell for over 400 a piece. Even if there were 100 copycats out there all making a killing they still aren't in any way making a difference in the desireability of ritchey's engines.

Dennis already admitted he learned from other boaters when he first started. Other major tuners have said simililar things to me about their mentors. They don't just open up and tell everything to everybody, but what if they all had said, "Don't ask me about why my engine is fast mr. newbie, it's copyrighted." This is a hobby and copyrighting everything that makes these cars tick is not the way to go.

I also fail to see any logic boomer and corse-R in thinking you'll get more information from tuners once they all start copyrighting every design change they come out with. That's exactly the opposite of the intended purpose of the copyright.
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Old 03-08-2003, 08:25 AM   #80
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I also agree with both Boomer and Dennis!!!!!!!

I can't afford to spend countless $$$$ trying to figure out how to mod engines. I also can't afford to spend $400+ on the JP's, Collari's, etc. Dennis produced some of the strongest engines I have ever seen, and at reasonable prices, with untold sacrifices on his time and family. I see why he's pissed. I would be too!!!!
People copying his work has done nothing but make it harder for the rest of us to have quality engines at fair prices.

I still have a gen 2 RTU. It's starting to show it's age, but is still more powerfull than many engines on the track with less than 1/2 the mileage.
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Old 03-08-2003, 08:39 AM   #81
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Quote:
Originally posted by tekrsq
I also agree with both Boomer and Dennis!!!!!!!

I can't afford to spend countless $$$$ trying to figure out how to mod engines. I also can't afford to spend $400+ on the JP's, Collari's, etc. Dennis produced some of the strongest engines I have ever seen, and at reasonable prices, with untold sacrifices on his time and family. I see why he's pissed. I would be too!!!!
People copying his work has done nothing but make it harder for the rest of us to have quality engines at fair prices.

I still have a gen 2 RTU. It's starting to show it's age, but is still more powerfull than many engines on the track with less than 1/2 the mileage.
i just don't get it. How is other people getting into the market basing some of their designs of ritchey making it HARDER to get quality engines at fair prices? All of them are cheaper than Dennis's prices. $400 on a jp or collari? How much do you think you're going to spend to get a "copyrighted" Ritchey off ebay?

If you can't afford to spend the time or the money learning to mod engines, like many of us, then the more choices out there the better. If 10 guys learn from ritchey and can fill the demand then prices for normal folks go DOWN , not UP. We all know you can't duplicate everything from just sight anyway, so it's not going to be a complete ritchey copy, but look at where the prices are headed on mod motors now and explain to me how more decent tuners in the market hurts the little guy.

The logic just isn't there. Ritchey and smeltz both stopped mass selling primarily because the demand was simply too great - not primarily because others were dupeing their mods. Maybe roar just needs to start requireing spec motors so we can be done with it.
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Old 03-08-2003, 08:48 AM   #82
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Patella,

What not to get?

Dennis is pissed at the fact that he spent 20 odd years of his live perfecting different techniques and variables in his engines to make them the best. Once he gets it done, several wise guys come along, steal his work and sell it as their own in a matter of weeks.

Would you not be pissed if you spent 20yrs perfecting a new design and someone came along and took it from you?

Dennis himself stated that he doesnt care if people copy his work to sell on as long as they give him Their SSN number to right it off against tax. At least that way he is making something out of others stealing his work.

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Old 03-08-2003, 08:56 AM   #83
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First off,asking motorman if you can copy his work for your own private use is silly.

Last edited by JUN; 07-07-2003 at 09:09 PM.
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Old 03-08-2003, 09:13 AM   #84
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Quote:
Originally posted by modellor
Patella,

What not to get?

Dennis is pissed at the fact that he spent 20 odd years of his live perfecting different techniques and variables in his engines to make them the best. Once he gets it done, several wise guys come along, steal his work and sell it as their own in a matter of weeks.

Would you not be pissed if you spent 20yrs perfecting a new design and someone came along and took it from you?

Dennis himself stated that he doesnt care if people copy his work to sell on as long as they give him Their SSN number to right it off against tax. At least that way he is making something out of others stealing his work.
What's not to get is how Dennis copyrighting his work is going to mean more information for the average joe and lower prices for anybody.

Like I said Dennis didn't spend his 20 years in a vaccuum where he built an engine from scratch. When he started he learned things from other tuners, just like new tuners will learn from him.

Dennis provides a lot of useful information but I haven't seen any timing information or details that will allow you to dupe his motors easily posted on anybody's forum, and neither have the other tuners and I wouldn't expect them to.

People need to look at the big picture and get over this emotionalism about morality. What happens when everybody starts copyrighting every design they produce for something in RC?

Dennis mentioned the guys who use his designs as being akin to Trinity. I think the opposite. Threatening to sue other companies for making similiar products is more like trinity.

Imagine if trinity tried to "copyright" the "process" of matching batteries and filed lawsuits against anyone who used remotely similiar processes in matching? The lawsuits wouldn't amount to a hill of beans but the threats would take money from the small companies and have the effect of drying up the competition.

Dennis listed a bunch of modifiers up top, none of them except for maybe smeltz and murnan can be said to be spawned from Dennis's designs, and some of them have been in the game longer than he has. But I don't see them trying to copyright and threatening to sue anybody for selling mods that look similiar to theirs. How many guys tried to mod motors like the late Ron Paris? What if he had this same mentality?
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Old 03-08-2003, 09:19 AM   #85
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Patella,

Basically what I'm getting at is people try to copy Dennis' work (atleast what they can see). Then they "produce" an inferior engine based on only half of what needs to be done. Then to top it off, they sell it for the same price you can get an engine from a TRUE modifier. Now you have high priced paper weights. They may run better than a stock engine, but they are not what people are expecting when they buy it. This only hurts the market, and the racers, in the long run.

I'm not saying all of the new builders are doing this, but some are, and many have in the past.
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Old 03-08-2003, 09:21 AM   #86
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The port timing doesnt need to be on a website or piece of paper for Joe Bloggs to be able to copy it. It doesnt take a genius to work out how to look inside an engine and use a circle protractor to work out what changes Dennis made to the timing compared to a standard version.

Thats not what Dennis cares about. No matter who you are you cant make the timing any different from the next guy. Their is an optimum and thats it. But you can make a difference to how the engine is gas-flowed by using newer tehniques. These are what Dennis is copyrighting. These are his own work and he has every right to stop people stealing them.

I think you need to read through all of Dennis's posts again to fully understand where he is coming from.

Last edited by modellor; 03-08-2003 at 09:24 AM.
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Old 03-08-2003, 09:35 AM   #87
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Old 03-08-2003, 09:44 AM   #88
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Quote:
Originally posted by patelladragger
yeah, I'm a systems engineer and programmer and other thangs too. If you can show me some code that is not based on someone else's code in some way I will be impressed. Did you write it in assembler?

If you produce something that is original and valueable enough then you package it as a product and there are ways to prevent it's piracy. But the large majority of extremely dynamic and extensible systems and applications are OPEN SOURCE.
Off-topic mode on:

Those guy requested me an application for their bussiness, after countless hours of coding and debugging he used my application, he requested more options when the application was done and I did it, but what pissed me is the way that those guy acted. Cracked the security of my application and got unlimited use of the app - I made modular and more concurrent users where reached paying a little fee (35 US$ for each concurrent user, not much).

Probably I'll wait to some problem that have on the future and we'll see if I honour their request.

Don't ask me about Open source. I know Linux from before Slackware 1.0 (About 10 years ago). My first contact with linux was with a 0.99 patchlevel 12 kernel. I've been involved on many linux projects (Much of them related with documentation and translation of manuals to Spanish) and mailing lists (Cisco, Squid, Apache and others) helping many people without asking none. Feel confortable with Open Source, but not with the Rampant Piracy.

Off-topic mode off.
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Old 03-08-2003, 09:48 AM   #89
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i agree with you motorman if i designed something and it was copied and sold without my permission i would be very upset

i think a copyright is a very good idea but i wanted to ask if you minded if someone copied for themself not for sale

i also just got on here to say that my smeltz sirio did look as though he had not copied one of your engines

i know about the early smeltz looking just like your engine but i believe the two of you had at least come to some sort of agreement on the issue
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Old 03-08-2003, 10:06 AM   #90
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I've been reading this SH#T for the past week....


First from the richey modified thread, then the smeltz thread and then you guys spread it down to this thread....

ENOUGH ALREADY!!!!!!!!!!! WHY DON"T YOU GUYS START A NEW THREAD AND START ARGUING WITH EACH OTHER!!!

I for one am not interested in who does wat! but rather how to enjoy this hobby...
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