R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Nitro On-Road

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 05-25-2003, 09:37 PM   #136
Tech Prophet
 
InitialD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: MORDOR
Posts: 19,679
Default Re: Re: Re: Check this Out!

Quote:
Originally posted by Top Gun 777
If you look at the description what was done on that engine (ebay item description) everithing looks reasonble, but there are quet few questions pop up. How they make heat treating on the crank shaft (it was already clean grinded to the size). After heat treating you need to regrinding again. How? What is the main reason to redo backplate? there is no ports, nothing is there! Also, everything was brought to factory specks-where is modification? Too many tricks, but interesting for what? Can somebody describe it?
Whatever it is, I think I would be correct to say that whatever is intended to be mentioned on the site by Pat Fox would likely remain to be just minimum description. I believe he would be rather happy if it remained that way. Else, it would be another Motorman case... Too much information given away and you shoot yourself in your own foot.

This kind of information is good for us but unfortunately not for the person where the idea of this information originates.
InitialD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2003, 10:53 PM   #137
Tech Elite
 
EdwardN's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: SoCal
Posts: 2,144
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: what and where do you guys want to modify

Quote:
Originally posted by InitialD
I think with the inline pipes, it is easier as you eliminate one of the tuning variables. More reliable connection too.

Anyway, when you use a fix lenght for a piped tuned to a specific RPM (in this case an inline pipe), you can always change and bring the cars's gearing to suite the track with the engine RPM and powerband Shouldn't that be easier?
Yes absolutely! But what is the problem to make right lentgh on the pipe even if it is not in line? Just make some extansion, or cut to desireble size! Also, there are some designs for the pipes which have prutty wide RPM range, but unfortunattely I haven't see one arround.
Miracle never happened, we can't wait when the engine will work as we wonna! we have to make it work for us on the way we need! This is main purpose of the tunnig partucularly and RC modeling in general. If samobody wait for miracle-he is already late on the show! As I know, all real results was made first on the work table, on the track was only small final tunning (beside driving practise).
EdwardN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2003, 12:54 AM   #138
Tech Prophet
 
InitialD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: MORDOR
Posts: 19,679
Default Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: what and where do you guys want to modify

Quote:
Originally posted by Top Gun 777
Yes absolutely! But what is the problem to make right lentgh on the pipe even if it is not in line? Just make some extansion, or cut to desireble size!
There is actually no problems using the 2 piece pipe with a silicone coupler except that the pipe and the manifold can detach easily when not secured properly. I have used them before. The reason why I have changed to an inline pipe is because of reliability. The one piece inline pipes are more sturdy and they have a more reliable coupler connection. I have seen and experienced many a time that the silicone coupler detaches from the pipe and ends your race prematurely even when the manifold and the pipe was secured carefully. This even happens to experienced racers.
InitialD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2003, 06:26 AM   #139
Tech Fanatic
 
RClover's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 869
Default Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: what and where do you guys want to modify

Quote:
Originally posted by InitialD
There is actually no problems using the 2 piece pipe with a silicone coupler except that the pipe and the manifold can detach easily when not secured properly. I have used them before. The reason why I have changed to an inline pipe is because of reliability. The one piece inline pipes are more sturdy and they have a more reliable coupler connection.
i have been running J-couplers to connect my pipe and manifold with no problem. I use 4 strips of 5mm zip tie cable to tighten. Never experience a detached pipe in the worst scenrio...even those in-line pipes cant sustain in this kind of crashes!!!
its just a matter if you know how to use these coupler!
RClover is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2003, 07:55 PM   #140
Tech Prophet
 
InitialD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: MORDOR
Posts: 19,679
Default Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: what and where do you guys want to modify

Quote:
Originally posted by RClover
i have been running J-couplers to connect my pipe and manifold with no problem. I use 4 strips of 5mm zip tie cable to tighten. Never experience a detached pipe in the worst scenrio...even those in-line pipes cant sustain in this kind of crashes!!!
its just a matter if you know how to use these coupler!
Trust me. Even in big races and in the A main race, I see even experienced drives who have to retire half way or loose a lot of laps because of the disjointed muffler/pipe. Accidents do happen. These people did not use the one piece inline pipe. Imagine the hardship you have to put the pit guy through trying to joint your muffler back when it's hot hot hot If it's a one piece inline pipe, if indeed the muffler and the pipe is disjointed, you can put it back relatively easier by using the small manifold springs.

If you're confortable with a 2 piece pipe and a J joint silicone coupler and do not experience problems with it, then I cannot say anything. Just stating my opinion, first hand experience and preference.
InitialD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2003, 08:11 PM   #141
Tech Master
 
modellor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Northern Ireland
Posts: 1,447
Default

I have to agree. It is personal preference but I prefer the two piece pipe. It is easier to tune the pipe to suit the engine and so far I have experienced the opposite.

I have never had a pipe come of the manifold. It all depends on how you secure it and what tricks you learn along the way. Using GS couplers also really helps. As far as durability goes, I have noticed that in-line pipes are more prone to total destruction when hit correctly as they simply crumple at the joint instead of the rubber joiner popping off. But a two piece pipe can be crumpled also but they take more abuse in my opinion.
modellor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2003, 08:28 PM   #142
Tech Initiate
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: CA.
Posts: 41
Default Re: Re: Re: Check this Out!

Quote:
Originally posted by Top Gun 777
If you look at the description what was done on that engine (ebay item description) everithing looks reasonble, but there are quet few questions pop up. How they make heat treating on the crank shaft (it was already clean grinded to the size). After heat treating you need to regrinding again. How? What is the main reason to redo backplate? there is no ports, nothing is there! Also, everything was brought to factory specks-where is modification? Too many tricks, but interesting for what? Can somebody describe it?
I do not know what Pat does as far as heat treating, but to answer your other Q's. If you look at the backplate closely you will see the small porting done. As far as bringing back to factory specs, he is talking about torq for the head screws. I have several of Pat's motors and they are great.
thebutcher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2003, 08:45 PM   #143
Tech Master
 
modellor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Northern Ireland
Posts: 1,447
Default Re: Re: Re: Check this Out!

Quote:
Originally posted by Top Gun 777
What is the main reason to redo backplate? there is no ports, nothing is there!
Hmmm, for someone with so many years building model engines you dont know much about them. At the back of a Rear Exhaust engine you have a Boost Port. When the piston comes down it partially blocks the flow of fuel to this port so by machining the back plate you allow the fuel somewhere to flow to get to this port.

This is nothing new and has been done in many ways over the past 20yrs including chamfering off the whole backplate and refilling it with Araldite to give the clearance needed.
modellor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2003, 09:24 PM   #144
Tech Prophet
 
InitialD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: MORDOR
Posts: 19,679
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by modellor
I have to agree. It is personal preference but I prefer the two piece pipe. It is easier to tune the pipe to suit the engine and so far I have experienced the opposite.

I have never had a pipe come of the manifold. It all depends on how you secure it and what tricks you learn along the way. Using GS couplers also really helps. As far as durability goes, I have noticed that in-line pipes are more prone to total destruction when hit correctly as they simply crumple at the joint instead of the rubber joiner popping off. But a two piece pipe can be crumpled also but they take more abuse in my opinion.
Concerning tuning, I have read somewhere (possibly one of Motorman's post) that the overall pipe length makes very little changes to the performance of the motor so much so it is more of a hasle to change it to get a slight gain in perforamance. I may be wrong on this.

As for your observation on one piece inline pipes, yes, you are correct. I have actually not seen the inline pipe crumple at the joint but I notice because of their rigid assembly nature, they tend to get damaged (as in dented upon impact) more easily. But I rather have a pipe that may be dented in a race upon impact and have it not come off than a pipe that can make the rubber joint pop off. You are still able to finish the race with the car when the pipe is dented. Not when the joint pops off
InitialD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2003, 03:01 AM   #145
Tech Fanatic
 
RClover's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 869
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by InitialD
Concerning tuning, I have read somewhere (possibly one of Motorman's post) that the overall pipe length makes very little changes to the performance of the motor so much so it is more of a hasle to change it to get a slight gain in perforamance. I may be wrong on this.

As for your observation on one piece inline pipes, yes, you are correct. I have actually not seen the inline pipe crumple at the joint but I notice because of their rigid assembly nature, they tend to get damaged (as in dented upon impact) more easily. But I rather have a pipe that may be dented in a race upon impact and have it not come off than a pipe that can make the rubber joint pop off. You are still able to finish the race with the car when the pipe is dented. Not when the joint pops off

since you never gonna use a coupler in your life, just stick to your in-line pipe, you wont believe these couplers could have work better than the in-lines no matter how many people tell you so.

The length of pipes (if using these silicone couplers) can be altered to suit track condition. You get 'slight gain in performance' ONLY when you change the pipe length slightly! Go try and borrow a pipe and play with these couplers, you can change the length as much as 20mm, and then come back and tell me if that does make a difference.
The longer pipe gives you more torque while a shorter overall pipe gives you more top. If pipe length is not really important, why Rody Roem would recommend this on his website.
RClover is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2003, 03:37 AM   #146
Tech Prophet
 
InitialD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: MORDOR
Posts: 19,679
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by RClover
since you never gonna use a coupler in your life, just stick to your in-line pipe, you wont believe these couplers could have work better than the in-lines no matter how many people tell you so.

The length of pipes (if using these silicone couplers) can be altered to suit track condition. You get 'slight gain in performance' ONLY when you change the pipe length slightly! Go try and borrow a pipe and play with these couplers, you can change the length as much as 20mm, and then come back and tell me if that does make a difference.
The longer pipe gives you more torque while a shorter overall pipe gives you more top. If pipe length is not really important, why Rody Roem would recommend this on his website.
I do not have any quarrels with you and if you found my post offensive or in any way degrading your intelligence, my apologies. From the tones of your post, I find that you're not happy with what I posted and took it very personal. Like you, I posted my views and people can choose not to follow them if you wish. To each it's own. If you think I have judged you wrongly from your post, I apologise yet again...

Perhaps I did not mention that I used to use them before in the good old days and experienced problems with the coupler coming out every now and then upon the slightest brush against the side wall or with other cars. And yes, I probably did not fix it right. When I saw experienced drivers also facing the same problems in the A mains, I told myself that inline pipes were a better deal. True enough the racers who manage to finish their race and do not have pipe problems were those who had inline pipes. Coincidence? I never make any conclusion base on a short observation. Have you watch the long mains and have you seen cars that have their mufflers disjointed from their pipes been ordered to the pits to get them repaired first before continuing the race? When you can avoid the problem, why risk taking it in the first place?

Yes, you may detect differences in the power of the engine when playing with pipe lengths which I do not deny. But with all the power in the newer modified engines out there, the difference in the power gain will not be significant to the one you can get from an inline pipe. It makes the adjusting of pipe lengths seem so much of a hassle. I believe the Novarossi inline pipe length is somewhere about 96 mm off my head.

I never denied that using 2 piece pipes enables you for more engine tuning oportunites if one so wishes. I just dislike their reliability and the way they put you out of a race. Cheers.
InitialD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2003, 03:50 AM   #147
Tech Master
 
FREAKAH's Avatar
R/C Tech Elite Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,389
Default Re: Re: Re: Re: Check this Out!

Quote:
Originally posted by modellor
Hmmm, for someone with so many years building model engines you dont know much about them. At the back of a Rear Exhaust engine you have a Boost Port. When the piston comes down it partially blocks the flow of fuel to this port so by machining the back plate you allow the fuel somewhere to flow to get to this port.

This is nothing new and has been done in many ways over the past 20yrs including chamfering off the whole backplate and refilling it with Araldite to give the clearance needed.
There is no boost port at the rear of an rear exhaust engine. The boost port is towards the front. The exhaust port is at the rear. I think you may be referring to the transfer ports.

Machining reliefs in the backplate allows easier air/fuel passage
from the crank aspiration hole to the crankcase/liner transfer ports. The stock backplate partially blocks the crankcase transfer ports.
__________________
Second-Hand Racing
RACE WORLD HAWAII
Losi Type-R |Tamiya F104 PRO | Tamiya F103 | Mugen MTX-4R | AE FT GT2
FREAKAH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2003, 04:07 AM   #148
Tech Master
 
modellor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Northern Ireland
Posts: 1,447
Default

Ya. My bad.

Thats the one I meant.
modellor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2003, 06:12 AM   #149
Tech Fanatic
 
RClover's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 869
Default

Quote:
[i]Originally posted by InitialD
I do not have any quarrels with you and if you found my post offensive or in any way degrading your intelligence, my apologies. From the tones of your post, I find that you're not happy with what I posted and took it very personal.

Why are you so sentitive? You are like women!!! Read my post if i had said something personal against you? It was you who are adament to accept views from others.

Quote:

Like you, I posted my views and people can choose not to follow them if you wish. To each it's own. If you think I have judged you wrongly from your post, I apologise yet again...


Quote:

Trust me. Even in big races and in the A main race, I see even experienced drives who have to retire half way or loose a lot of laps because of the disjointed muffler/pipe. Accidents do happen. These people did not use the one piece inline pipe. Imagine the hardship you have to put the pit guy through trying to joint your muffler back when it's hot hot hot If it's a one piece inline pipe, if indeed the muffler and the pipe is disjointed, you can put it back relatively easier by using the small manifold springs.



Neither did i ask the people to distrust what you've said! It was you who ask people to trust you! That shows you only want people to accept what you've said!


Quote:

Perhaps I did not mention that I used to use them before in the good old days and experienced problems with the coupler coming out every now and then upon the slightest brush against the side wall or with other cars. And yes, I probably did not fix it right. When I saw experienced drivers also facing the same problems in the A mains, I told myself that inline pipes were a better deal. True enough the racers who manage to finish their race and do not have pipe problems were those who had inline pipes. Coincidence? I never make any conclusion base on a short observation. Have you watch the long mains and have you seen cars that have their mufflers disjointed from their pipes been ordered to the pits to get them repaired first before continuing the race? When you can avoid the problem, why risk taking it in the first place?
You may have seen many A main drivers lost their race, that doesnt mean you have seen the whole world of A main drivers lost their race too!!!

Quote:

Yes, you may detect differences in the power of the engine when playing with pipe lengths which I do not deny. But with all the power in the newer modified engines out there, the difference in the power gain will not be significant to the one you can get from an inline pipe.
Do not mislead readers on this board unless you have done your research on this! Is this just your view?

Quote:

I never denied that using 2 piece pipes enables you for more engine tuning oportunites if one so wishes. I just dislike their reliability and the way they put you out of a race. Cheers.
Finally, you admit that you dont like the coupler b'cos of its reliability and could have put you out of a race.

Please...please, next time if you do not like something, do not try to ask people to be your follower.

One more thing, i notice that you like to send apologies to people on this board after you have said something unfounded. You said something sarcastic like 'degrading your intelligence', and then say Sorry! Are you trying to show you are smarter?
Its YOU who are taking this personal!!!

Last edited by RClover; 05-27-2003 at 06:17 AM.
RClover is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2003, 07:09 AM   #150
Tech Addict
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 530
Default

RClover,
Can we say DICK HEAD. Just my opinion, and I am not going to say sorry. You were the one being the ass in that one. He simply stated he didnt like them and you tried to be a little know it all. This is getting old. I am going to another thread were people are kinda friendly.
BallPy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Engine Modifiers?? TeknikalMugen Nitro Off-Road 41 12-08-2008 02:37 PM
Best Stock Motor Modifiers? Ferrarimk13 Electric On-Road 39 02-07-2008 09:43 PM
GO 28R/Full Starter Engine GRracing Ver.Team Fully Modified Engine handpiece Onroad Nitro Engine Zone 0 07-28-2007 03:42 AM
The Tuners and Modifiers bible for 2 stroke engines TomB Australian Racing 4 04-19-2007 06:52 AM
selling custom savage roller with engine, truck zillia modded engine.$275 pat360xboxhalo3 R/C Items: For Sale/Trade 2 01-11-2007 05:23 AM



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 02:23 AM.


We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net