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Old 09-05-2010, 09:00 AM   #11446
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just had a look at some setup sheets, to refresh my memory, and only one hole available on the hubs. i would look at using the RS diff cover, as it is plastic as well, and then have some camber rise options, short or long rear top arm.
Hey Patto,

Dun think G4 has a roll center problem. The car is naturally low set, I was running on the top pivot have run on the bottom and not much differs.

There was an old post in this thread regarding front slip. Most often a dumbing down of steering helped with rear end. However, using suspension to achieve this hasnt worked for me. Stiffening up the front reduces front droop and you lose weight transfer to the rear and car gets snappy out of corners.

Like I mentioned, I looked at factors that I hadnt changed (long ball threads) that seemed limited by design. What I did try whilst in practice was a set of Matrix +2mm on the rear and kfactory on the front. Guy reported there was a LOT of push yet the rear end was rock solid.
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Old 09-05-2010, 09:57 AM   #11447
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Hey Patto,

Dun think G4 has a roll center problem. The car is naturally low set, I was running on the top pivot have run on the bottom and not much differs.

There was an old post in this thread regarding front slip. Most often a dumbing down of steering helped with rear end. However, using suspension to achieve this hasnt worked for me. Stiffening up the front reduces front droop and you lose weight transfer to the rear and car gets snappy out of corners.

Like I mentioned, I looked at factors that I hadnt changed (long ball threads) that seemed limited by design. What I did try whilst in practice was a set of Matrix +2mm on the rear and kfactory on the front. Guy reported there was a LOT of push yet the rear end was rock solid.
what you have done is increase the rear track with the offset of the rims. hence why you couldnt pass tech with those rims. widening the rear track will give you more stability through grip, this is probably why Guy felt front push and rear end planted. with the top arm positions, roll center is fine tuned, big changes come from lower hingepin changes. time for bed, but would like to chat with you later on about this. Cheers, Patto.
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Old 09-06-2010, 03:45 AM   #11448
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what you have done is increase the rear track with the offset of the rims. hence why you couldnt pass tech with those rims. widening the rear track will give you more stability through grip, this is probably why Guy felt front push and rear end planted. with the top arm positions, roll center is fine tuned, big changes come from lower hingepin changes. time for bed, but would like to chat with you later on about this. Cheers, Patto.
I got my Popcorn ready and i am going to sit back and watch the show:P

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Old 09-06-2010, 04:25 AM   #11449
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I got my Popcorn ready and i am going to sit back and watch the show:P

Paul: you have an email!
Save me some ................
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Old 09-06-2010, 05:04 AM   #11450
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Save me some ................
I will... it's Abbey's sweet popcorn she gets from the markets:P
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Old 09-07-2010, 01:56 AM   #11451
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Originally Posted by Pattojnr View Post
what you have done is increase the rear track with the offset of the rims. hence why you couldnt pass tech with those rims. widening the rear track will give you more stability through grip, this is probably why Guy felt front push and rear end planted. with the top arm positions, roll center is fine tuned, big changes come from lower hingepin changes. time for bed, but would like to chat with you later on about this. Cheers, Patto.
The magics seems to be too wide for ifmar specs.. I doubt Id get into the box if I used the outer hinge pins, and certainly not with Matrix tyres

As I mentioned, the most dramatic change was the wider rear (in relation to the front). Reducing steering rates helped a lot but would hinder us on tighter twisting tracks.

As mentioned the long ball joint threads made it impossible to narrow the track width enough without cracking the arms. I hope Ive solved the age old mystery. What leads me to believe in my findings is that on the G4S we bought 2nd hand the track widths were much wider (out of AARCMCC) specs but the car handled great. The reservation to cut down my lovely CF joints was what prevented us from testing.

Realising the Matrix were +2 I took the opportunity to combine with 37 (softs for us) to test. With 37s on, the likely hood that tyre grip cause was removed and I feel a lot more comfortable using track widths now to manage lateral loading and car balance

Qlds...

All in all the Qld titles was an awesome meeting with a large representation of aussie top class on road drivers. Patto, hope you have a few engines handy, they're playing for keeps now and very little smoke through all the rounds. Lots of engines blown too, consistency is something we all seek, power is what we need.

From my observations, rotating mass is a major plus atm, off the mark the small diffs really shine with the mod donks, perhaps not as much impact on a fast fluid track, but for the most part, Guy was on a great line with awesome entry and good corner speeds and was smoked on exit.

Jason Dorn popped over and bench tested the car's clutch and tune, and thanks to him I remembered a big error Id made in Syd where I dropped a tooth and lost 2nd gear. (Took me a while to get me head around RPM not Torque shifting the 2nd gear clutch.) With a good sense of where the magic shifts we freewheeling, we nailed it when car took to track. Lowering the pinion gave Guy more bottom but still not good enough for the likes of NT1s and RB MMs

We also learnt a lesson that at major meetings the extra servicing and prep can lead to more "switched on" radio usage and disregarding of charging strategy. We also used Carbon Capricorn +.8 tyres for the first time and I diligently trued to 62 60. The rims are REALLY stiff and I have to give the a near perfect A+, really sweet to look at too! So by Saturday it was all about... "Is it on charge.. Are the tyres ready... " small minor camber tweaks and general lube of the clutch thrusty, clean of the one way etc etc.

We realised the importance of pre race preparation, to be conservative with battery usage and we can say we really enjoyed a top class event with equally classy drivers. The level of competition promoted collected driving with few reckless runs to be witness. The top 15 set a marvelous tone for the field, driver etiquette was great and pit atmosphere relaxed and friendly..

So Patto..

Your turn for a good story...

SA around the corner, ready for an awesome time !!

H
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Old 09-07-2010, 02:33 AM   #11452
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From my observations, rotating mass is a major plus atm, off the mark the small diffs really shine with the mod donks, perhaps not as much impact on a fast fluid track, but for the most part, Guy was on a great line with awesome entry and good corner speeds and was smoked on exit.
Did I ever tell you the RS09 has a really small diffs and low rotating mass ?


On a side note for those persisting with "old technology "

2 weekends ago I raced a local clubby.

As I have not touched a transmitter in 8 months , for a bit of fun I dug out the old G4JR ( no sway bars ) with a Lola body , this thing has "3 racing" shocks and an old Fantom FR12 engine.

the day before , I put on some Kyosho springs ( yellow rear , green front ) leftovers from my Kyosho World Cup days.

To my amazement , the thing was planted.

Harry , in the 18 months we raced the '08 , it never , ever handled as good as this thing did the other weekend - just planted....I'm sure the Lola body was a big factor , but still impressive.

I'm thinking the problem all along may have been the skinny RS chassis ? - the JR has a big , wide chunk of aluminium as a chassis in comparison.

Soft springs, no sway bars , stiff chassis......
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Old 09-07-2010, 05:09 AM   #11453
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i still think the G4S chassis, with some things from the 08 RS , would have been a great combo. the G4+ was too rigid, but Harry, rims were always 0 offset. if your using +2 offset, and +1, then screwing in you hubs can lead to binding of diffs. i think i got as much as i could out of the TM days, and i had not driven anything else, this is why i made a change, and really i havent looked back. not saying TM was bad, i really learnt alot.

SA will probably be my last nitro onroad days for some time. due to things being so bad over here, no one runs 8th scale anymore , and tourer is dying. untill a track in perth starts back up, i doubt any new drivers will turn up and race, and i have tried my best to do as much racing so far away from home for a long time, its just not viable anymore. i will hope to do the Qld titles next year, but ill be very green with out much racing going on at all. so i will be trying my best to just enjoy the Nats in SA, and have as much fun with some great guys i have met while travelling around OZ competing in this great Sport/Hobby.
So Harry, i hope to have a great story for you after my return from SA.
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Old 09-07-2010, 05:37 AM   #11454
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Default Packed to the rafters.. pfft

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Did I ever tell you the RS09 has a really small diffs and low rotating mass ?


On a side note for those persisting with "old technology "

2 weekends ago I raced a local clubby.

As I have not touched a transmitter in 8 months , for a bit of fun I dug out the old G4JR ( no sway bars ) with a Lola body , this thing has "3 racing" shocks and an old Fantom FR12 engine.

the day before , I put on some Kyosho springs ( yellow rear , green front ) leftovers from my Kyosho World Cup days.

To my amazement , the thing was planted.

Harry , in the 18 months we raced the '08 , it never , ever handled as good as this thing did the other weekend - just planted....I'm sure the Lola body was a big factor , but still impressive.

I'm thinking the problem all along may have been the skinny RS chassis ? - the JR has a big , wide chunk of aluminium as a chassis in comparison.

Soft springs, no sway bars , stiff chassis......
Our first car was the Lemans with the lola, the handling is remarkable. Luis, not sure what it was, and you know Im honest about my experience still newbie really, but the LE at the QLDS came really good. Not entirely sure how much effect the LX shocks had, but it was a rare time where if I pulled down on either rear side, the front wheels maintained the droop. You also know that I love setting up the car stiff too, Moorebank etc. So I think the tuning window contracts and expands between these two configurations.

I smoked my race engine trying, even "Dornie" didnt say it needed leaning. Reliability was what we needed and the old GURRRP served us well, now retired as a clubby as those who had the modifieds are managing to get even more out of them with the next gen chassis

I think the RS09 needs WC bulkheads to give the chassis a core to handle the long lanky arms. I cant help but think that the 09 will oscilate up and down. I'd be religious about removing free play in the suspension.

Joel Casey drove supersoft rear, TM once switched Xray and regularly mid 18s and we at best made 19.1s. We had a laugh while looking at the Xray diff about dropping a TM one and breaking your foot. I should have run a front diff but didnt want to deal with the overheads and car looked balanced.

For me, the Serpent caught my eye as the most well planted. And this aint a spin for Patto, as I had know idea who he was or what he was driving, turned out to be Clayton Hughes, nice drive too.

Anyway... for now, Im immersed in TM 502 chassis, it's a quality peice of kit thats hard to get right. Sometimes when I give it the attention it needs, a new set of ZF bearings and whatever else I could scavange from the EVO.

So sad to see those rear alloy bulkheads go to waste but I dont think Ill indulge in the 3mm plate. Engine mounts arent recessed enough and you'll be dremelling



Oh yeah and we ran a lightweight Protoform Stratus, trusty shell. C/-
ryandezign.com thanks matey awesome
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Old 09-08-2010, 06:29 AM   #11455
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Default Radio Tray Mods

Hi All

With some help from Patto, i have attempted to move the receiver to the battery location of the radio tray...

Have included a picture!

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Old 09-08-2010, 02:58 PM   #11456
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Ahhh im so mad right now. Everytime i drive my g4s on the track, both rear tires gets destroyed.

Foam gets ripped of the wheel on the outside, this happens EVERY time. What the hell is wrong???

No one at my local track knows why this happens. I have the same setup as they have in camber, toe-in and such. They dont have this issue...

I changed the oil in the rear diff to 30k cause someone said that was the problem, i hade 6k before.

I didnt hit the curbs, i didnt flip the car or anything. Im getting so sick of this that i am thinking about stop racing 1/10th onroad...


EDIT: And yeah one more question, HOW do i get more front drive, its like im driving a rwd car right now. TM added a huge front sidepulley and a small one rear side. 27t vs 18t/19t, what the fudge?
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Old 09-08-2010, 03:15 PM   #11457
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Ahhh im so mad right now. Everytime i drive my g4s on the track, both rear tires gets destroyed.

Foam gets ripped of the wheel on the outside, this happens EVERY time. What the hell is wrong???

No one at my local track knows why this happens. I have the same setup as they have in camber, toe-in and such. They dont have this issue...

I changed the oil in the rear diff to 30k cause someone said that was the problem, i hade 6k before.

I didnt hit the curbs, i didnt flip the car or anything. Im getting so sick of this that i am thinking about stop racing 1/10th onroad...


EDIT: And yeah one more question, HOW do i get more front drive, its like im driving a rwd car right now. TM added a huge front sidepulley and a small one rear side. 27t vs 18t/19t, what the fudge?
We only chunk tires when they scrub up against curbs, which happens sometimes to us with too tight racing lines. Use the side wall tire stickers if you foams come with them, they do stop the tires from chunking. I have also been told by some experienced drivers; that painting the outside wall of the tire with glue (Superglue or PVA glue), stops it.

Harry reckons that new tires chunk on high grip tires, unless they get trued down to about 62 - 61 mm. However; no other driver has told us that, and we have only chunked tires in races where we have taken too tight lines. Your experience seems to support that theory however.

Kindest regards,
Lars.
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Old 09-08-2010, 03:25 PM   #11458
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We only chunk tires when they scrub up against curbs, which happens sometimes to us with too tight racing lines. Use the side wall tire stickers if you foams come with them, they do stop the tires from chunking. I have also been told by some experienced drivers; that painting the outside wall of the tire with glue (Superglue or PVA glue), stops it.

Harry reckons that new tires chunk on high grip tires, unless they get trued down to about 62 - 61 mm. However; no other driver has told us that, and we have only chunked tires in races where we have taken too tight lines. Your experience seems to support that theory however.

Kindest regards,
Lars.
Im using the stickers but they dont stop the tires from chunking as you say.
And as i said, i didnt hit any curbs. I will try with glue next time, but i should not have to use glue, the other guys at my track dont have this problem...

Tires arent cheap so i wish they didnt chunk like that.

However, does anyone know how to get more front drive?
Can i purchase a different pulleyset from, for exampel kyosho v-one rrr maybe?

I really need a smaller pulley on the front sidebelt and a bit larger at the back to not screw the gear ratio up. But team magic does not have any...
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Old 09-08-2010, 04:34 PM   #11459
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We only chunk tires when they scrub up against curbs, which happens sometimes to us with too tight racing lines. Use the side wall tire stickers if you foams come with them, they do stop the tires from chunking. I have also been told by some experienced drivers; that painting the outside wall of the tire with glue (Superglue or PVA glue), stops it.

Harry reckons that new tires chunk on high grip tires, unless they get trued down to about 62 - 61 mm. However; no other driver has told us that, and we have only chunked tires in races where we have taken too tight lines. Your experience seems to support that theory however.

Kindest regards,
Lars.
Lars, this happens specially when running softer shore. Either you traction roll or chunk. Whilst laptimes might be fast with larger diameters, it doesnt last long and you ruin tyres anyway.. So might as well take some off and enjoy the drive
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Old 09-08-2010, 04:39 PM   #11460
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Originally Posted by Sonsa View Post
Ahhh im so mad right now. Everytime i drive my g4s on the track, both rear tires gets destroyed.

Foam gets ripped of the wheel on the outside, this happens EVERY time. What the hell is wrong???

No one at my local track knows why this happens. I have the same setup as they have in camber, toe-in and such. They dont have this issue...

I changed the oil in the rear diff to 30k cause someone said that was the problem, i hade 6k before.

I didnt hit the curbs, i didnt flip the car or anything. Im getting so sick of this that i am thinking about stop racing 1/10th onroad...


EDIT: And yeah one more question, HOW do i get more front drive, its like im driving a rwd car right now. TM added a huge front sidepulley and a small one rear side. 27t vs 18t/19t, what the fudge?
Sonsa, I said before, it's natural that rears will wear more as the transfer of weight shifts to rear. So run harder tyres, 40's give yourself 2mm split larger rear.

And you're sure side belts and front belts arent slipping right?

h

PS: This will be even worse with Soft Shore and Hard Srpings.
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