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Old 04-14-2009, 04:26 AM   #10696
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Yeah i pretty much started with it but i had to put the front sway bar back on, i'm not sure why but it felt alot more predictable with it on. It was like where everyone else was on power i couldn't be otherwise i would spin on a dime. people were powering around corners but i just had to coast it around, it was way off the pace.
You were not alone - my car had the steering rate turned down to 40% and was still very , very twitchy.

Just not used to this type of traction, and as always , we suffer from a serious lack of "data sharing"......need more fast Aussies using this car.

It would also "pivot" on the front wheels as you backed off and turned the wheel off center, like if you were to use 30 shore tyres on the front and 45's on the rear...horrible and almost impossible to drive, let alone string together consistant fast laps.

We tried diff and spool, no difference.

Any sudden steering input and you'd be off track and onto the grass (or the fence) - it was so damn hard to drive the car

Vertical front sway bar improved it a little, as did using TM orange front springs, but the car was crap.

When we put the car down at Lilydale - much less grip, it was almost drivable, however at the first sight of grip and on most of the tight corners that horrible "pivoting" came back.

We changed the front roll center back to the kit set-up ( upper outer ) and the car felt a little better, also tried some "different" front springs with really good results. ( we went through the whole TM range before doing this)

We backed off the angle on the rear sway bar and stood up the rear shocks 1 hole - car seemed to square up out of the turns better and had better drive; again, used different springs.

Awaiting the next clubbie for a real test....even considering posting the car to a mate in NSW so he can assess if these changes worked or not.
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Old 04-14-2009, 05:04 AM   #10697
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You were not alone - my car had the steering rate turned down to 40% and was still very , very twitchy.

Just not used to this type of traction, and as always , we suffer from a serious lack of "data sharing"......need more fast Aussies using this car.

It would also "pivot" on the front wheels as you backed off and turned the wheel off center, like if you were to use 30 shore tyres on the front and 45's on the rear...horrible and almost impossible to drive, let alone string together consistant fast laps.

We tried diff and spool, no difference.

Any sudden steering input and you'd be off track and onto the grass (or the fence) - it was so damn hard to drive the car

Vertical front sway bar improved it a little, as did using TM orange front springs, but the car was crap.

When we put the car down at Lilydale - much less grip, it was almost drivable, however at the first sight of grip and on most of the tight corners that horrible "pivoting" came back.

We changed the front roll center back to the kit set-up ( upper outer ) and the car felt a little better, also tried some "different" front springs with really good results. ( we went through the whole TM range before doing this)

We backed off the angle on the rear sway bar and stood up the rear shocks 1 hole - car seemed to square up out of the turns better and had better drive; again, used different springs.

Awaiting the next clubbie for a real test....even considering posting the car to a mate in NSW so he can assess if these changes worked or not.
so what tyres were you guys using ? maybe 40 rears and 45 fronts, may have helped. but to start with the car is almost opposite to others, out of the box it has a ton of steering and a lack of rear grip. many things can be done to get that changed, but it sounds to me once hit with a track with such grip, it compounds this problem greatly. in the end of my driving the TM, i was using Serpent springs with good results. pistons i was using the Kfactory ones, not modded. 2 hole front 3 hole rear. and 50w oil. i was using the old style serpent springs, purple front and red rear. like 6.5 fronts, and 4,6 rears. but unfortunately i havent run on a track with such grip. closest was Melbourne a few years back.
anyone try some slight toe in at the front, and widening the track width ? long wheelbase, less rear droop, more front ?i know its easy to say now, but it would all help to get rid of all that steering.
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Old 04-14-2009, 06:04 AM   #10698
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You were not alone - my car had the steering rate turned down to 40% and was still very , very twitchy.

Just not used to this type of traction, and as always , we suffer from a serious lack of "data sharing"......need more fast Aussies using this car.

It would also "pivot" on the front wheels as you backed off and turned the wheel off center, like if you were to use 30 shore tyres on the front and 45's on the rear...horrible and almost impossible to drive, let alone string together consistant fast laps.

We tried diff and spool, no difference.

Any sudden steering input and you'd be off track and onto the grass (or the fence) - it was so damn hard to drive the car

Vertical front sway bar improved it a little, as did using TM orange front springs, but the car was crap.

When we put the car down at Lilydale - much less grip, it was almost drivable, however at the first sight of grip and on most of the tight corners that horrible "pivoting" came back.

We changed the front roll center back to the kit set-up ( upper outer ) and the car felt a little better, also tried some "different" front springs with really good results. ( we went through the whole TM range before doing this)

We backed off the angle on the rear sway bar and stood up the rear shocks 1 hole - car seemed to square up out of the turns better and had better drive; again, used different springs.

Awaiting the next clubbie for a real test....even considering posting the car to a mate in NSW so he can assess if these changes worked or not.
Actually that's one thing i didn't play with, front roll centres. I usually have it in the upper-outer position anyways so it probably would of made it worse if i did change it around. It would be good to have gotten a bit more time on the track in the practice sessions. Apparently next year they are being held at Whalan which is my home track Who knows i might be driving an x-ray by then

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so what tyres were you guys using ? maybe 40 rears and 45 fronts, may have helped. but to start with the car is almost opposite to others, out of the box it has a ton of steering and a lack of rear grip. many things can be done to get that changed, but it sounds to me once hit with a track with such grip, it compounds this problem greatly. in the end of my driving the TM, i was using Serpent springs with good results. pistons i was using the Kfactory ones, not modded. 2 hole front 3 hole rear. and 50w oil. i was using the old style serpent springs, purple front and red rear. like 6.5 fronts, and 4,6 rears. but unfortunately i havent run on a track with such grip. closest was Melbourne a few years back.
anyone try some slight toe in at the front, and widening the track width ? long wheelbase, less rear droop, more front ?i know its easy to say now, but it would all help to get rid of all that steering.
Yeah i tried longer wheel base, less rear droop and more front, less front toe out(from 1mm to .5mm), all different angles on the bars. I had the steering exponential turned down to try and slow down my excessive steering inputs Also tried different springs (softer, harder, the same all round).
When you say widen the track width, your reffering to the front ay because my rear was maxed at 200mm and the front was 199mm.

I have never driven on a track with so much grip before, not that i have been racing for long but i've never seen it before. Also what would those serpent springs compare to in the TM spring kit?

As for tyres 40-42 seemed to work the best. I actually was using 40 all round. I should have tried 42-45 fronts
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Old 04-14-2009, 07:04 AM   #10699
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not sure how they compare, but i had a full spring kit so i played with them, i found them more progressive, so in reality the same rated spring is a tad softer on initial compression, this allows the car to transfer it weight, the TM springs have no progression, there for they just dont allow the weight to transfer effectively. i ran 196 front trackwidth on the RS, but if you were allready running 199, thats about it. if Lui had the orange spring on the front, thats pretty hard man, but still no progression. dont forget the harder the front is , the quicker it changes direction, and can unsettle the car a huge amount. the middle inner setting takes away some initial steering, and giving a heap of caster can take initial steering out of the car , this mixed with radio settings can work also. can go on, but no point now, its all done and dusted. trick is to find out what others did to combat the problem, and learn from it.

were guys traction rolling ? and yeah if you had too much grip with 40F, shuld have tried 42-45 fronts.
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Old 04-14-2009, 09:18 AM   #10700
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not sure how they compare, but i had a full spring kit so i played with them, i found them more progressive, so in reality the same rated spring is a tad softer on initial compression, this allows the car to transfer it weight, the TM springs have no progression, there for they just dont allow the weight to transfer effectively. i ran 196 front trackwidth on the RS, but if you were allready running 199, thats about it. if Lui had the orange spring on the front, thats pretty hard man, but still no progression. dont forget the harder the front is , the quicker it changes direction, and can unsettle the car a huge amount. the middle inner setting takes away some initial steering, and giving a heap of caster can take initial steering out of the car , this mixed with radio settings can work also. can go on, but no point now, its all done and dusted. trick is to find out what others did to combat the problem, and learn from it.

were guys traction rolling ? and yeah if you had too much grip with 40F, shuld have tried 42-45 fronts.
Yeah i did see a few traction roll but i didn't see any in 8th scale. It was like the front was too grippy with 40's but the rear was taily with them. By the end of saturday the fast guys were running 42's. Luis is right though, we need a few fast aussie's driving G4's to help with set ups, tips etc at the track. If you didn't have a Kyosho, Mugen or X-ray then you had hardly any help. Thank god for people like Luis, Joel, Alex (Omarko) and michael (aussies1129) who were more than helpful throughout the meet. Without them i would of been totally lost. It was a great experience though and i did learn a lot so it wasn't all bad i suppose
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Old 04-14-2009, 09:25 AM   #10701
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We run high traction most of the time over here in the U.S. I'll try to get a set up sheet posted by the end of the week or early next with my starting set up for most tracks. I usually find I want more steering though so you'll have to see what you like depending on your tracks over there in Oz.

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Old 04-14-2009, 10:56 PM   #10702
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We run high traction most of the time over here in the U.S. I'll try to get a set up sheet posted by the end of the week or early next with my starting set up for most tracks. I usually find I want more steering though so you'll have to see what you like depending on your tracks over there in Oz.

Socko
That would be great, thanks. Do you guys run on VHT a lot over there?
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Old 04-15-2009, 07:31 AM   #10703
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Some tracks do use VHT, but not many. Toledo has it's own special brew that makes good grip. A couple of tracks just use soda and lay down a good layer. I have also run on a couple of tracks that use the Molzer/Mowery track bite that had crazy traction too. It's always funny when your shoes stick to the track when marshalling.
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Old 04-15-2009, 06:33 PM   #10704
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Socko,
Don't call it a comeback! I'm coming soon to a track not near you. LOL
Are you coming to the Toledo MWS?
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Old 04-15-2009, 08:17 PM   #10705
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Hi Kodak

Good to see you are getting that itch to go racing again!

Why are you looking at the Mugen? Was your last TM experience that bad? Seriously Team Magic do seem to have some quality issues with the plastic on there car. I am starting to think that my mighty GV BV1 has stronger plastic.... (Yes i did work on it last night )

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Acutally i changed my mind at the last minute, and got my self a NEW SERPENT 720 -09 ..... ooooooohhhhh aaahhhhh cant wait now!
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Old 04-16-2009, 09:15 AM   #10706
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Acutally i changed my mind at the last minute, and got my self a NEW SERPENT 720 -09 ..... ooooooohhhhh aaahhhhh cant wait now!
Wooohooo ... you'll love it too. Err, post pics when you're building it mate!
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Old 04-16-2009, 09:25 AM   #10707
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Socko,
Don't call it a comeback! I'm coming soon to a track not near you. LOL
Are you coming to the Toledo MWS?
Yep, I'll be there. See you then.
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Old 04-16-2009, 07:20 PM   #10708
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Good luck at Toledo Socko, I have my first HOA race the week before.
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Old 04-17-2009, 12:50 AM   #10709
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you got it the wrong way around. a 50t which is smaller will have less punch. and a smaller 2nd gear will make better top end. what system are you using on the ED ? there was teh G4+ with the washer and screw. i had this come off many times. best to use the RS plastic ED and use the C clips. safer from having the screw come loose.
how did you go at the titles ?
Hey Paul if i use the shaft with the e-clips will i have to use the brake pulley with the two pins or can i still use the alloy pulley with the chamfered edges?

If i can't use the alloy pulley that will mean i can't run the k-factory vented brake disc, i would have to use the stock disc Is this right?
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Old 04-17-2009, 03:32 AM   #10710
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Hey Paul if i use the shaft with the e-clips will i have to use the brake pulley with the two pins or can i still use the alloy pulley with the chamfered edges?

If i can't use the alloy pulley that will mean i can't run the k-factory vented brake disc, i would have to use the stock disc Is this right?
i used the std plastic pullies hence the shaft with the E clips, for the brake pulley, what i did was to ground a flat on the shaft where the grub screw for the alloy pulley(G4+) will be tightened. so just use a dremmel and mark where the flat has to be, then use loctite (red) on the grub screw, tighten it first and make sure everything is lined up, then remove the screw and add the loctite. hope this helps, you then retain the Kfactory disc.
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