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Old 11-18-2007, 05:11 AM   #8566
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Originally Posted by G4S'er View Post
Raceday Hobbies still has a spread of the G4/G4S products for those that wish to continue running the car. We have the TM parts and the K Factory parts as well. We have a good supply of all the plus G4+ parts. We ar not buried in the parts, so yes we will run out in time, however we have a very deep inventory so we are still a good source for all G4 racers.

I thank Bristish Menace for setting the record straight about us throwing in the towel and not the other way around. Indeed the management is poor with no concept or respect for their loyal customers. I am talking about all of us who have and/or still presently race their car. Hopefully one day it will change.

I found it interesting about the Australian distributors, because I found TM selling one of their customers a car at distributor pricing. When called down on it, they did not care. It was one of the reason as they say... the straw that broke the camels back. So for the Austrailian distributors.... watch you back!

Someone mentioned Serpent. We will have the new 720 '08 car and already have a complete inventory for 720's that will show soon on our website. Our philosophy has always been we will have a complete live inventory of parts for every car we sell. So if anyone is going to Serpent... We will keeep you running on Raceday!

Just remember two things... first.. this is just a hobby and it only money! .... Second.. Just have fun and go fast!!!!
Hello Sam,

Due to your excellent service and fair prices to me in Australia ( and probably countless more happy customers here too) I will get a Serpent soon to add to the car collection.
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Old 11-18-2007, 05:47 AM   #8567
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The past is the past. TM has improved the chassis to the point where it is competitive at every level.

In the same time from G4E to G4RS the Mugen has gone from the MTX3 to MTX3 propspec to MTX4 to MTX4 prospec to the MTX4R. There are so many examples of everyone updating their chassis to remain competitive that there is no need to try and single out TM for special mention. If you had a G4 in that time at least you could update your chassis at a reasonable cost. There was no upgrade path from MTX3 to MTX4.

If you're happy with your current chassis then that's great, plenty of TM owners are happy with theirs too.
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Old 11-18-2007, 09:32 AM   #8568
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After Ray had placed his experiences on here. I thought, if I may, like to place my experiences with the G4. Just to give people some perspective and a comparison.

I received one of the first G4E made. Way back whenever. I used this car for around 3 years. I didn't bother with the Mongoose, why cause it was basically the same with a few hop-ups. Steering? I used the sliding steering that came with the 'E'. Didn't change to the swing rack. Tried it, but there was little, if any difference. My sliding steering never got slop in it. I stripped it down after every race wkend. I also oiled it during races. I renewed some parts after each year of operating it. Yes, each year!

I then upgraded this car with the 'S' upgrade kit. No new car kit! And also the new UFO clutch system.
I ran with this for around a year before I got a new 'S' kit. That was last year!
It was only my second G4 kit in around 5-6 years !
In this time with the G4, the amount of spur gears I have stripped you can count on one hand which I can also say about the bearings supplied in the kits. I have only replaced with a set of "EZO bearings last year to see what they were like. Infact some (!) of my original E bearings are still in use today!
The kit quality was always good. Upgrade parts, while expensive(!) Were good. There was no issue with my 'E' carbon side braces.

I did not bother with the G4+ or will I with the RS. (Although reasons for not having the RS are slightly different)

As for weight: I can't again see any issue. My car's weight at the last race I ran with the G4 was 1630g (YES 1630g !!!!!) Obviously I had to add weight which was why I made it light. So I could put weight where I wanted to.

The G4 is like anything and everything else out there that is manufactured and bought. They will never build the perfect car, even though they know how to get prety darn close to one. They will always manufacure in week spots, inferior parts in respect of strength or durability or performance. So as we will all keep going back to get the new improved parts. The stronger parts.
Thats business.
What it comes down to is the car, what ever it is, how it's designed or made, only needs different amounts of maintenance to keep it in good order.
For most of us we will never, ever reach in our driving ability, the stage to where we are better then the car we drive.

You may argue this by saying that when I bought this or that new car, my lap time came down by 0.5secs.
Well, I stand by what I say. What is neededonly in cars is the wider tuning ability needed (as pointed out by Ray above) in order to gain the best froma given track. Bumpy or smooth. Trated or not. High temp, low temp. Different road surfaces. All can be taken care of with tuning options built into the car.

For those who don't believe me about the weight of the car. I was at the Pro series finals at Nebraska. There were others there who know. 1630 grammes. And the scale weighed 5 grammes too heavy..........lol

Respect to all and have a great time racing the G4 whatever model it is. ;-)

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Old 11-18-2007, 02:58 PM   #8569
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I'm curious as to some observations you guys have purposely overlooked to comment on.

Rear Sway Bar- Guys if your running the blade type on the rear. It doesn't work. Why? The rear suspension travels further than the front. At the limits of handling the blade type sway bar binds. Hmmmm...even the top drivers yanked it off and ran a conventional modified bar. Can you imagine a top racer not being able to tune with rear sway bar?

Rear lower roll Center adjustment- NONE......huh??? Every other car has it and it's a valuable tool in car tuning.

Rear hinge Pin spacing: I wonder why all the other guys went to longer suspensions arms? So the thing would have better bumpy track driveability.

Fuel Tanks- Out of Spec. Some as much as 5ml's Fuel tank ribs prohibit filling the tank properly. You wanna give up 3 to 4 seconds per fuel stop go for it.

Outdated internal rive ratio- 2.55 vs 2.05 Okay if you want to be lose a tenth of a second out of each corner go right ahead. If you don't... then fork up $100.00 for the upgraded transmission kit. THat's $100.00!!

Clutch system: How many versions? Clutch with the car kit. UFO and UFO2?
Hmmmm.........and thats what $60.00 per pop?

Where's the price of the car and upgrades now?? $600.00

Common guys.........you wanna help your team magic following. Why don't you post what you need to have to first have at least a level playing field of car POTENTIAL compared to Mugen,Serpent, Kyosho and XRAY.

I'm curious though. Again the G4RS sales hype doesn't post the specifics of the car, and what was improved over the G4S.
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Old 11-18-2007, 05:54 PM   #8570
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I have known the British Menace for a long time and I can attest to him tearing down the car after every race and completely cleaning and lubing the car. I however prefer the put it in the box pull it out at the next race approach, which the Menace can verify, it drives him absolutely crazy. I agree that no car comes out of the box with all the features that a racers wants to race with. How could it? The minute a kit comes out someone figures out a faster or lighter option. Do I believe that the G4 in any form is the best car right out of the box. Nope. But it is a car that can be a decent contender. I have met a lot of racers in my day but British Menace is the most brand loyal I have ever come across. He knows every detail about all of the G4 cars and has helped me a ton this last year. Thanks for that by the way. My point is when he has something to say about the car it will always be fact. He also has one fine looking car.
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Old 11-19-2007, 12:01 AM   #8571
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RayJ View Post
I'm curious as to some observations you guys have purposely overlooked to comment on.

Rear Sway Bar- Guys if your running the blade type on the rear. It doesn't work. Why? The rear suspension travels further than the front. At the limits of handling the blade type sway bar binds. Hmmmm...even the top drivers yanked it off and ran a conventional modified bar. Can you imagine a top racer not being able to tune with rear sway bar?

Rear lower roll Center adjustment- NONE......huh??? Every other car has it and it's a valuable tool in car tuning.

Rear hinge Pin spacing: I wonder why all the other guys went to longer suspensions arms? So the thing would have better bumpy track driveability.

Fuel Tanks- Out of Spec. Some as much as 5ml's Fuel tank ribs prohibit filling the tank properly. You wanna give up 3 to 4 seconds per fuel stop go for it.

Outdated internal rive ratio- 2.55 vs 2.05 Okay if you want to be lose a tenth of a second out of each corner go right ahead. If you don't... then fork up $100.00 for the upgraded transmission kit. THat's $100.00!!

Clutch system: How many versions? Clutch with the car kit. UFO and UFO2?
Hmmmm.........and thats what $60.00 per pop?

Where's the price of the car and upgrades now?? $600.00


I'm curious though. Again the G4RS sales hype doesn't post the specifics of the car, and what was improved over the G4S.
1 - Rear sway bar is now a top mount blade the same as the xray one.
2 - I've never seen a problem with the fuel tanks (apart from one of the previous distributors cutting out the internal bracing that then increased the capacity.). Maybe you just need a better pit man if it takes him 5 seconds more to fill it.
3 - Since the G4+ (and yes this includes the RS) there are different mounting points for the rear lower arms to change the length (changing the roll centre at the same time)
4 - G4RS comes with the ED transmission with the new drive ratio - Plastic gears though to keep the cost down.
4 - UFO2 is included as well (G4S already included the UFO1)
5 - The street price will be around the $350 to $400 for the new car (I'm sure I read somewhere that it was in that range somewhere) and there is nothing more to spend unless you want more aluminium or carbon fibre.

Have a closer look at the G4RS site and you'll see everything.

It doesn't make sense to bag the company for 'making' you buy upgrades and then bag them for releasing a new kit with the essential upgrades included for a lower price.
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Old 11-19-2007, 02:10 AM   #8572
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RayJ View Post
I'm curious as to some observations you guys have purposely overlooked to comment on.

Rear Sway Bar- Guys if your running the blade type on the rear. It doesn't work. Why? The rear suspension travels further than the front. At the limits of handling the blade type sway bar binds. Hmmmm...even the top drivers yanked it off and ran a conventional modified bar. Can you imagine a top racer not being able to tune with rear sway bar?

Rear lower roll Center adjustment- NONE......huh??? Every other car has it and it's a valuable tool in car tuning.

Rear hinge Pin spacing: I wonder why all the other guys went to longer suspensions arms? So the thing would have better bumpy track driveability.

Fuel Tanks- Out of Spec. Some as much as 5ml's Fuel tank ribs prohibit filling the tank properly. You wanna give up 3 to 4 seconds per fuel stop go for it.

Outdated internal rive ratio- 2.55 vs 2.05 Okay if you want to be lose a tenth of a second out of each corner go right ahead. If you don't... then fork up $100.00 for the upgraded transmission kit. THat's $100.00!!

Clutch system: How many versions? Clutch with the car kit. UFO and UFO2?
Hmmmm.........and thats what $60.00 per pop?

Where's the price of the car and upgrades now?? $600.00

Common guys.........you wanna help your team magic following. Why don't you post what you need to have to first have at least a level playing field of car POTENTIAL compared to Mugen,Serpent, Kyosho and XRAY.

I'm curious though. Again the G4RS sales hype doesn't post the specifics of the car, and what was improved over the G4S.
i dont know what your trying to do man, but you seem one upset dude !
now after having the G4S and currently a G4+, i have noticed a huge difference in the rear Sway bar. to be honest id have 2 different setups for the car , 1- the old G4S rear swaybar for low grip tracks, 2 and the new bar for the higher grip tracks. the new swaybar setting on the G4+, G4RS and to buy as an option for the G4S, on its softest setting is still harder then the hardest setting on the old swaybar setup. just having raced on a prepped track and high traction, the new bar definately was a great tuning tool, so i dont know what you are on about ?
after running quite a few sanctioned events this year, not once did i have a problem with the volume of the fuel tank, again ?
the G4+ and the G4RS as ZOOM said, have a longer rear lower arm.
although there isnt a lower roll center adjustment there is plenty of options on the top arm, both front and rear of the car.
the UFO2 clutch is an update to the UFO clutch. there is a slight difference to the clutch shoe and the retaining plate, this is available seperate to buying the whole clutch.
drive ratio , there were always different options with internal gearing for the G4S, dependant of the track you run on, just now the ED trans has proved to be more efficient than playing around with the older internal gears.
4 very different tracks i have run on this year, and i always seem to end up with the StD pinions that come with the ED. but its also motor dependant.
every other car has optioned gearing, so again, im a little confused why you have such a problem with the release of the G4RS ?
it is cheaper than the G4S (maybe not now) and has all the speedshot ED trans and new wing arms and new hub design. so do READ the updates on the TM site about the G4RS, they have released all the updates from the G4S. happy reading
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Old 11-19-2007, 03:21 AM   #8573
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After I ran there cars for two years, I gave up on supporting there products for several reasons. 1) Poor quality control in final car kits 2) Re-releasing editions of cars that had design flaws right from the start. 3) The amount of upgrades needed to bring current versions up to date. 4) Absolutely no loyalty to distributor or dealer networks in the US. That translates to bad customer support.

G4E
Mongoose
-These cars had a swing rack steering system that were impossible to keep working properly. They developed major slop with just afew races. Replacement was a real pain. All the other companies had steering systems that had the axial type steering systems that worked, and had ackerman adjustment.
-The mongoose was released with a right side brace that had the holes drilled improperly. The factory never released a direct replacement part for the car.
The result is a Tweaked car. You needed to shim the top deck in order to get the tweak out of the car.
-Fuel tanks for these car were also out of spec. Some as much as 5ml. How do I know? I got two of them. They also were designed with so many interior support ribs that the thing was impossible to fill properly w/o air pockets.
-The mongoose was also released with a rear blade type rear sway bar that does not work properly. Most of the racers who used this sway bar had to take it off because there was no consistency.
(these are MAJOR problems if you try and race the car competitively)

G4S........after my experiences with this car. I had enough. Especially after it's problems.
-The car was released with an outdated internal ratio(2.55 internal ratio) The other mfr's reduced internal ratio to 2.05. The fix was an after market transmission kit. Cost $100.00 This is when they already KNEW the problem.
-Car released with the previous fuel tanks that were still out of spec. and had fill problems previously mentioned.
-Again they released the car with the blade type rear sway bar that doesn't work.
-Two different entire clutch systems, and all the money involved in supporting them as well.
-Car released with outdated rear suspension geometry. A geometry that was originally designed for RUBBER tires. No roll center adjustment. If you raced on a hi bite super flat track the car was fast. Go to a race with afew bumps and your off the pace.
-Car released with outdated front & rear suspension. All the car companies came out with longer suspension arms. The longer suspension travel greatly improved bumpy track performance.
-Braking system wildly inconsistant. You either had no brakes or were full on.
-Car almost 80 grams overweight.

These are all my personal experiences, and the fix-its that I needed to do to make the car competitive. My wallet suffered.

Let's hope all these things with the new G4SR have been fixed. I hope so for all the guys that are looking to buy it. I know so many of you have brand loyalty and that's great. I didn't come on here to bash this product. I know it sounds that way, but I'm not. It's more of my first hand experience with there cars, and my own wallet. I'm just saying LOOK HARD at the cars you choose to buy. Look at all the cars on the market....... make comparisons to what the other guys are doing......and make an informed choice. Choose based on total car costs, upgrades needed to make a car competitive, suspension geometry and part support. That's all I'm trying to say here. Get all the specs on this new car or version of the G4. Then make a choice.
That's what I feel when I still own G4S. Only last 3 race meeting and I decided not to look after the car anymore, ...... so I sold it, and forget it.
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Old 11-19-2007, 05:25 AM   #8574
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hi guys does any one know what size bearings are in the rear quick flash hubs?
thanks
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Old 11-19-2007, 10:19 PM   #8575
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I was talking to the distributor that is now bring parts in for the Team Magic car and he said Speedworld Raceway & Hobbies in Calif will have all the parts and cars in the next week or so.

www.speedworldraceway.com call them and ask.
they do not have the parts on their m/o yet but will ship with no problem.
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Old 11-19-2007, 10:36 PM   #8576
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That's what I feel when I still own G4S. Only last 3 race meeting and I decided not to look after the car anymore, ...... so I sold it, and forget it.
your biggest mistake...
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Old 11-19-2007, 11:29 PM   #8577
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guys, our tread started to loose speed because of US&TM relationship, off season, etc.. here's a video from our night race (around 2a.m.) at Bursa Raceway-TURKEY.. enjoy it

http://youtube.com/watch?v=tmlBsFdzVaA


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Old 11-20-2007, 12:23 AM   #8578
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your biggest mistake...
Nevertheless, you guys G4S owners are the nicest people in this forum. Always reply to each other and have fun with it. I always feel G4S owners are friendlier people. Good job !!
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Old 11-20-2007, 05:16 AM   #8579
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guys, our tread started to loose speed because of US&TM relationship, off season, etc.. here's a video from our night race (around 2a.m.) at Bursa Raceway-TURKEY.. enjoy it

http://youtube.com/watch?v=tmlBsFdzVaA


Asil
Wow! Something to factor in with the new future track in Western Australia; Night Racing?
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Old 11-20-2007, 07:59 AM   #8580
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