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Old 05-18-2007, 09:56 AM   #6646
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Originally Posted by asw7576
Because you are going to Bali ..... plz don't forget to beat up Alan Situmorang and send his head for grinder

Have a nice vacation !!!
Yes asw, I haven't forgotten about him. I am high on life at the moment and had a silly thought about Situmorang and a verse from that muppet Star Trek song from the eighties; was it "we come in peace,shoot to kill, shoot to kill...." 11 pm here in Perth and time for bed. Still haven't assembled my G4S yet and wondering if the Ferrari in your avatar is yours. I plan on buying one in the next five years. If yes, does it go well? I just bought australian Falcon GT today and slow run in process simular to .12 motors. I am already having fun driving GT with 6sp auto. Restricted to 4000rpm for 1500ks but already having a blast.
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Old 05-18-2007, 10:46 AM   #6647
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Yes asw, I haven't forgotten about him. I am high on life at the moment and had a silly thought about Situmorang and a verse from that muppet Star Trek song from the eighties; was it "we come in peace,shoot to kill, shoot to kill...." 11 pm here in Perth and time for bed. Still haven't assembled my G4S yet and wondering if the Ferrari in your avatar is yours. I plan on buying one in the next five years. If yes, does it go well? I just bought australian Falcon GT today and slow run in process simular to .12 motors. I am already having fun driving GT with 6sp auto. Restricted to 4000rpm for 1500ks but already having a blast.
I was living in Perth back then in 1990 for high school. How is Dalkeith now ? Still No.1 ?
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Old 05-18-2007, 11:05 AM   #6648
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Originally Posted by itchy b
Red doesn't realy go faster you know!
I get your joke

You are from Australia too right ?
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Old 05-18-2007, 11:38 AM   #6649
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Originally Posted by rmdhawaii
Mark ~ What brake pulley are pinions are you referring to in this post?

Thanks
Back then the hot ticket was to change to the 18T brake pulley and use an 18/52 first gear with a 2nd geared for length. this setup would change the first gear from the kit's 7.3 to 7.7 really helping it pull out of the corner. Now that the ED is out you can just use that for decent size tracks geared down to a 15/52 & 20/48 for a more efficient internal ration and drive train but for the best setup for tracks under 200ft seems looks to be a 20T brake with 20 &26T side pulleys and a ED pinions (use the 15T first gear). The ED system is defiantly superior to the conventional transmission but is severely limited in gearing. The ED setup stops @ a 7.6/5.17 and would require that I start my tires @ 57/59 to match the 60/62mm rollout I start my tires @ with the 20T brake setup. If they were to release say 14 & 19T ED pinions there would be no reason to run anything else. the 5.26(using the 48T no loner listed) spur 2nd gear limit isn't too bad but the 7.6 first really kills it, they need to be able to get to get to 8 or so to compete on small parking lot tracks.


regarding the comparison the Kyosho looks to have come a long way with their new rear camber plate. Also when I posted that the only low grip condition I had run in were on unsealed asphalt. Now that I have seen a few more conditions I would say my earlier assessment was not entirely accurate. On the unsealed surface when the grip is down or even wet the G4 really shines but I have yet to find a comparable setup for a dirty sealed surface. The problem looks to roll center related, since I am able to achieve the same balance that makes it work on the unsealed asphalt but just can't generate as much mechanical grip. With the use of the front end & wheel base mods I have been able to get the car on par for medium grip technical circuits and visibly superior on open layouts.

I think if TM were to address the gearing and rear roll center limitations along with accommodating the shortened wheelbase and narrow front end the car would be unbeatable state side, but from the development I see it looks as though they have no interest in developing for the US market. Where the rest of the world seems to run primarily on nitro sized permanent unsealed tracks , in the states we run mostly on parking lot tracks. Since we run on temporary tracks and most clubs also run electric the tracks tend to be smaller with a wider range of surfaces & conditions. As a result of our smaller tracks and wider range of conditions we tend to need a wider adjustment range in our cars to compensate.

Mark
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Old 05-18-2007, 01:50 PM   #6650
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Amazing. Thanks Mark. What an interesting revelation about the ED transmission. Based on what everyone was saying, it seemed liked it was a mandatory upgrade, but I guess not.

Is this right? Short track parts list:

K1484 G4 & V1 Hard Coated 20T Side Pulley (2 speed shaft)
K1485 G4 & V1 Hard Coated 20T Brake Pulley
K1405 G4 Hard Coated 26T Pulley

K14122-15 G4 ED HC 7075 Alum. 15T Clutch Geared
K14122-20 G4 ED HC 7075 Alum. 20T Clutch Housing

What type of spur gears would you recommend for a short track? Stock? (51T/46T)
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Old 05-18-2007, 04:42 PM   #6651
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What Mark is referring to is what I "lovely" called the poor man's ED transmission last year. Of course what this does is gives more opportunities to accomondate the smaller tracks with lower 1st gear ratios. I ran a race at Revelation last year with this system using a 16/52 to get a 7.80 ratio and still had a 5.14 with a 22/47. I used the 20T brake, 20T side and the 26T front side pulley. The system worked great and if you have smaller tracks it will works pretty good. Plus as Marke has stated you can get the ratios even smaller. I forgot what the tire split was but I believe 2.0mm split was close.

The Ed transmission although it shows by numbers to have a low 7.59, the mesh of the whole gear system is so light and smooth. This allows the engine to run cooler, not working as hard, and the obvious smoother rotating mass. I don't know how you put that all into numbers, but that 7.59 runs like a lot lower ratio. So sometimes, as Mark and I have discussed in the past, in my opinion, any time you make the rotating mass easier on the engine ( or making it lighter in weight ) you have subsequently made more horse power and therefore more performance. There could be new gearing in the future(?) that could be the answer to some of these tracks we are talking about. One never knows.lol

I will mention one other fact right now because what was said is just a persons opinion and not the reality of fact. Not everything in the future will be designed with Europe in mind. In fact, once again, there could be parts and even cars that are strictly for the US in the very near future. One never knows. lol
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Old 05-18-2007, 05:00 PM   #6652
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Apples and Oranges?

Okay Sam, so what is your recommendation for a small track? Poor Man's ED or ED?
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Last edited by rmdhawaii; 05-18-2007 at 05:11 PM.
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Old 05-18-2007, 05:48 PM   #6653
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Pattojnr only 6 sleeps NOW till ya arrive in adelaide for the State Titles 2007 @ Littlehampton Raceway,

I have been nice enough to accommidate the lad down here and make him feel like a pro racer

you getting excitted patto?


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Old 05-18-2007, 06:02 PM   #6654
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RMD,

Sam is a big fan of the ED setup and I would agree that its increased efficiency does make up for some of what it lacks in gearing. My only problem with the ED system is that the gearing is so far off for the tiny track I see I have to cut my tires down to 55/57mm to get the rollout I need. With the "poor boy ED" I trade some drive train efficiency for the gearing (8.32/5.4-5.64) the tracks need when grip is med. to high.

The lower gearing of the 2.4 internal buys me an extra 3mm foam moving my peak lap times from 57mm (end of run) to 60mm rears(middle of run).

I would suggest you take a look at the tracks you are going to be racing on and what kind of gearing the other racers are using before deciding which way to go. If the faster runners are gearing their first gear down in the 8s and/or tuning their fastest laps just before their tires die I would suggest the 20T setup, if not the ED would be better.

pulleys for the 20T are:
K1484 G4 & V1 Hard Coated 20T Side Pulley (2 speed shaft)
K1485 G4 & V1 Hard Coated 20T Brake Pulley
K1405 G4 Hard Coated 26T Pulley

as for gearing I would suggest a 15/52 first gear if you can get the power down and adjust 2nd for the top end needed.

The 2 tracks I see most race both electric and nitro and run between 125-150ft long so I general use a 15/52 w/ 20/46 or 21/47 depending on the layout.


Sam,

From my perspective TM's has been neglecting the US recently. When I see updates like the ED that omits parking lot gearing options, the upcoming G4+ that still doesn't have a rear roll center adjustment through the lower pin and a distributor change to Trinity I can't help but feel like their not concerned about US customers.


Mark
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Old 05-18-2007, 06:35 PM   #6655
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Thanks Mark. I usually practice with 62/64, race 60/62 and recycle 58/60 for racing only. I think at 55/57, you're just way to close to the rim.

With the announcement of the G4+, I'm reluctant to pick up a G4S because it doesn't have all the cool and costly upgrades - ED, Speed Shot and Flash Pit Hubs (more for the camber links). That's $375 USD just for upgrades! For that kinda money, I could buy a **#. I can probably live without the SS and the FP, but I was really wondering about the ED.

I'm sure I'll find a palitable deal on a NIB G4S. Street prices seem to be coming down.
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Old 05-18-2007, 09:50 PM   #6656
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Old 05-18-2007, 11:29 PM   #6657
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Default G4 gearing

Hi
Can someone please tell me what sort of gearing i should be running on a short track. I have standard gearing in my g4? and after reading some of the posts on here about gearing i'm abit muffed?
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Old 05-19-2007, 07:16 AM   #6658
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w/out going to ED trans the shortest gearing available is 18/23 which is what i use on the short track's where i live..oh and that's pinion's...i think stock spur gear's are 47/51...
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Old 05-19-2007, 04:41 PM   #6659
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S101dude is correct the 18 pinion is the smallest pinion for short tracks. You will hear me say this a lot soley because it is true, it is what ever you prefer and whatever works best for you in gearing, setup and etc. At Las Vegas with the ED transmission we used 15T and 16T pinions. We founf that the 15T was without question faster out of a turn but a little harder to control. We didn't feel there was much loss in punch punch with the 16T pinion however, it was very smooth and easier to handle. Which one should you use??? whatever works best for you.

You must remember someone on here can say the 18th or using the ED pulley in combination with the other gearing is great for them today. But the condition of the track he was on rated 1 to 5 on traction was what? These are race cars taht must be tuned for that track that day and keeping up with that same track the same day. This is what makes this hobby great!

Take all the ideas and pick on ones you have the ability with the stock you have now and try it and find out what works best for you. When you can, purchase the next items you need to try the other idea(s) you have read and sounds good to you.

This sharing of ideas is fantastic and that is how all of us will learn and get better. However, their is no ONE right idea, because everyone drives differently and everyones driving abilities are at different levels. So you keep taking the steps that make you faster and as you get faster, you use more ideas that will increase you driving skills and your car's handling to match you!

Team Magic doesn't care about the US. Give me a break!!! This on road market is 30% or less of the total dollars spent in the R/C hobby. I was just told today that at a very popular series that has about 70 plus racers show up (which is a good number,) are almost all the same that were there 10 years ago!!! What does that mean, we are not getting new people into the hobby. Sure there are some new faces, but a very small number!!! What needs to be done???? Ask the other manufactures, they have done nothing but raise their pricing to overcome slow sales. Team Magic as well as the RC Pro Series realizes that you have to start once again by grass roots promoting. Team Magic and RC Pro Series have started a beginners class. This class is for anyone at home right now with an RTR to come and run with others of same skill level!! Plus you will be helped by a Pro Driver while there. This year there will be by points one National winner. They will receive a FREE G4S RTR. Is that good to get these people out and hopefully get them excited!!?? Next year there will be a complete season schedule for the RTR beginners to run. RC Pro Series will claim by points 7 divisional champions. Team Magic will give one G4S RTR to each winner. That is 7 RTR's plus the cost of advertising to help RC Pro Series carrying this grass roots attempt to get new blood into our hobby!!! Should they keep the RTR's and raise prices OR help the US on road program get on it feet???

Thank you Team Magic, maybe some other manufacturers will join in on how to get our on road program going in the states like the Europeans have over there!!! I guess this is more than my 2 cents...huh??? lol
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Old 05-19-2007, 05:20 PM   #6660
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Originally Posted by asw7576
I was living in Perth back then in 1990 for high school. How is Dalkeith now ? Still No.1 ?
Cottesloe,Mosman Park,West Perth,Applecross,Mt Pleasant and a few others Hollywood suburbs inc Dalkieth. A client of mine moving from Dalkieth to Owston Street,Mosman Park with views of Swan River and Perth. V Pretty and expensive part of the world. But like yourself client works overseas in Singapore, plenty of money. I don't recall you answering question about Ferrari?
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