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Old 04-27-2007, 12:30 AM   #6241
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first 4 repetition cornering -> my G4S in kawahara 3rd

later 4 repetition cornering -> my G4S in kawahara 2nd


you can see traction roll difference and accelerating[acceleration] force down by clutch trouble.




http://pds30.cafe.daum.net/original/...85f67&.wmv
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Old 04-27-2007, 01:50 AM   #6242
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Z00M
Everything in razzor's post is correct. And the ridge on the clutch adjusting nut faces away from the flywheel.
Ive been doing the clutch this way from day one.
i dont see how it can be done any different with out making it complicated.
As for the the tension nut the ridge faces forward away from the flywheel.
I tried it the other way and the ridge doeasnt locate in the center of some of the springs properly and can also be a reason why the springs are tweaking.

Another probelm i found was some of teh guys were not removing the inner clutch bearing when setting the clutch gap which is teh area in blue on teh pic.
once gap is set I install the inner bearing and shim for endplay of .1mm
Lately i have been using a clutch gap of .5 and its been the most consistent.
With the black shoe i started using 1 weight in shoe and the red shoe i use 2 weights as i found the red shoe slipped more than i liked it too.
On the tweeking of the black 1.8mm spring i went through all my springs yesterday 3 from engines and 4 in packaging from my stock and noticed that i had one tweeked on a engine but that they are also a bit tweeked when they are new as they have less coils so this might be why they tweek.
Even with teh tweek none of my shoes are worn uneven.
Thats why i am thinking that Gansei's problem was a stuck shoe/weight or binding on one of the sliding pins or a damaged/tweeked shoe base plate because that was what happened to me a while back.
Yellow springs are perfect.
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Last edited by razzor; 04-27-2007 at 02:02 AM.
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Old 04-27-2007, 10:46 AM   #6243
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Z00M
Can you explain what you mean a little more? There is no ridge on the side of the nut that contacts the spring. It is flat. Have a look at the picture above in razzor's post, You can see the ridge faces away from the spring.
I believe that's where the manual is slightly wrong. I think the original idea for the ridge was to sit inside the spring. In other words, the ridge FACES the flywheel, so as the spring seats properly. Until now, thats the way I have always assembled the clutch. Even though the manual says the opposite?? I can not see any other reason why the ridge would be there.
The rear bearing does not seat on this ridge, unless that was the original idea , because we shim this bearing away. Also we turn down the nut to adjust the spring tension. So it can't be for that reason.

Although, having the ridge facing the spring does make it more difficult to ensure the spring is flat up against the nut..........but, once inside the spring, the ridge does help to seat the spring and prevent any movement!

Having said this, I would agree with G4S'er. I think it probably best to file down this ridge as the new harder springs and the Mugen super hard silver item will not fit around the ridge anyhow.

But, having the ridge facing the spring is how I have assembled the clutch since the G4 came out.

But, in any case, I really don't think it matters. The only thing is. Are people measuring the clutch tension from the top of this ridge if they are assembling the nut that way around?

I think the important thing is here is that the spring is kept flat against the nut and the metal retainer and that the correct tension is placed on the spring to get the consistant reults we are after.

My imput

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Old 04-27-2007, 11:09 AM   #6244
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Have to agree BM but if you use the ridge side on the spring side then sometimes it tweeks the spring because its not on a flat surface and teh spring is not supported properly where as the ridge facing out wards the spring seats agains the larger flat area of the tension nut.In my opinion the way shown is better than otherwise suggested.
Might be possibble to file the ridge to fit in the spring then only will it be practical.
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Old 04-27-2007, 11:11 AM   #6245
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i have the ridge facing away from the engine and never had a single issue
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Old 04-27-2007, 12:10 PM   #6246
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Hi,

I have always run mine with the ridge facing the clutch bell, for me its not consistent the other way.

And, the ONLY reason I have suggested filing off the ridge is to run different springs that are longer (mugen super hard is 1mm longer than TM springs) this just allows us to run less tension on the spring (without the nut pushing against the rear bearing) , even though the spring is longer.

Hope that makes sense !
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Old 04-27-2007, 01:07 PM   #6247
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Defiantely makes sense muppet

I have the new Mugen springs and will fit one tomorrow for my club meet on Sunday.
Before i install i will take note of dimensions and any details to what has been mentioned.
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Old 04-27-2007, 01:16 PM   #6248
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On the K Factory site as Razor had on his post recently and the diagram that is up on another post all explain the initial setup of the clutch which is rather simple. If you put the shimps that does allow the housing to spin freely without the rear bearing in you will find it will be 3 shims. If you wish more or less but I have found the 3 shims to be perfect. After greasing and instaling the thrust bearing and doing as mention by Deniss Richey on the K Factory site you will get your end play and that works great.

Now setting the spring tension is totally an individual preference and track conditions. I have found many people even measure this differently or go by threads showing etc. Recently there was an article in one of the RC magazines that showed how Mike Swauger set his clutch up but most importantly how he measures. He is a Ron Paris protege as I am so we measure all the same way. But this is the area where you need to spend testing time. If your engine looks weak on the low end it could be the way you have you clutch adjusted. Jim Hottinger of Fusion Motorsports said the same thing to me at the Nitro Challenge. Most complaints for low ends are from those who have their clutch set incorrectly. You don't have to be a pro, just try different adjustments and find the one that works for you and then under different track conditions make changes.

Have Fun!
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Old 04-27-2007, 01:52 PM   #6249
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I have a question. I thought the use of the Mugen spring, although 1mm linger, was used also because it won't coil bind and the black spring could just due to the why the cils are made. Think less coils in the Mugen? It makes sense to me but I don't know??
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Old 04-28-2007, 12:20 AM   #6250
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Not sure if you talking of the same Mugen spring Sam but the TM black spring has the least coils of all the springs ive seen so I dont see how it could coil bind.
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Old 04-28-2007, 02:22 AM   #6251
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Hi Sam,

The Mugen super hard has more coils than the TM Black spring, but the theory behind using the Mugen spring with the set up I posted before is....

By using less weight behind the shoe together with a heavy spring, we just rely on the strenth of the spring (rather than putting lots of tension on a softer spring, meaning it becomes coil bound and therefore the setting of the tension is critical !) So, we have a lot less tension on our (Mugen) spring, its nowehere near coil bound, so the tension setting is not critical. Because the spring is not coil bound we can use the clutch gap as a good adjustment (although there is a limit of 0.6mm because there is not that much weight behind it) and trust me this clutch works in high grip, we ran the same clutch in the dry in Madrid.......

Good Luck
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Old 04-28-2007, 05:19 AM   #6252
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anyone try this gear b4, i know is kawahara LSD gear for voner,now me already modify it can fix G4S,can i know wht different with normal one(gear),also now i will try ED System,ED system compare to stock one which one better(i know ed pinion is wear )thank a lot bro
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Old 04-28-2007, 06:15 AM   #6253
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Carbon TransPonder and Dust Protect Cap !!
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Old 04-29-2007, 03:37 AM   #6254
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Default Diffs

Hi I just bought a G4 and it's with a one diff, the track I race on is a technical one so one way diff it's hard to use since you have to use alot of brake, which do you think it's the better option a spool diff or a normal diff?

What diff oils you use front and rear?

thanks

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Old 04-29-2007, 03:58 AM   #6255
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gansei
Carbon TransPonder and Dust Protect Cap !!
Very nice and good idea Gansei!
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