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Old 04-12-2007, 05:28 AM   #5911
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Originally Posted by Z00M
I totally see your point Serpentd. I'm sure if TM had a big bag of money as xray does (from all the different cars they sell) they would be buying drivers to showcase the product.

Since they really only have 2 cars (G4S and M1B - I'm not counting the 1/8th onroad at the moment) it is more like trying to let the users/customers showcase how well you can do without all the factory drivers and parts they have that you can't buy. This is a limiting factor for them I'm sure.

I feel that in the states the car is being let down by the current situation. Sam is doing what he does best as a retailer, but a niche car needs a niche distributor willing to put the hard yards in and get the product into the right hands. I have no doubt that Mike Blackstock or any other of the current trinity drivers could be a weapon with the car, the guy is a worlds A-main driver. But I get the feeling that since the car doesn't come with a bucket of cash like some of the electric or offroad cars do, then they aren't putting the effort into it that it needs, or it gets a lower priority. I'm not sure what the answer is in the states as it is a chicken or the egg type of situation. Don't forget Mugen USA was once a distributor for Mugen products until he put in the effort to make it what it is today.

Here in Aus, the distributor races the car himself and there are various levels of support offered to drivers around the country to try and get it up the front. They only reason the hobby shops in our local town don't carry the parts on the shelf is that people are buying them on the net from overseas or from other shops that do have them on the shelf.

As for the distributors footing the bill, I'm sure it was a joint effort, not just a one sided thing, although we may never know what deal was made for the worlds. If the distributors make more margin on the TM product than say, a serpent or xray product, then it's possible they could shoulder some of the load in that situation.

I too will stop rambling but I guess I like looking at the business side of the sport as well as the technical, as you seem to as well.
Dude, point taken. In all honesty and reality, TM is still a young Company compared to others. About 10 years old I believe. After talking with you back and forth on the subject, it's made me look at things in a little bit different perspective from TM's point of view. It would be nice if they did have say a handful of drivers from a few different countries, but maybe time and excperience of the company will tell. As you mentioned, the all mighty dollar plays a very large role in what a company can and cannot do. They have come a long way in the amount of time that they have been around. I personally got my car due to there designing approach that's a bit outside of the box. I like different. And our G4s is both great and different. So can't complain there. They are doing a good job actually. I need to also give them the due credit that they deserve.

As far as the internet ordering, well that's sort of along the same lines. Cash is probably the factor here for the LHS. If the LHS could actually stock EVERY part the same as which you could obtain online, I think that their business would pick up in that direction. It's not easy to run a hobby store, expecially with the variety of rc cars and parts out there. You would need a wearhouse to stock on say just 5 vehicles and all the support equipment. The only reason I use the internet is that not one hobby store carries any of the cars or parts for any of the manufacturers within a 500 mile radius. Not one car or one part. It's been this way for over my 10 years of racing rc. They can order it for me, but with their ordering schedule, it's faster for me to hit the net. I would much rather support my LHS. Actually the ONLY one that did have a car was my LHS not but 10 minutes away from me. And guess whatcar they got on...the G4S. But then about 2 weeks later the owner of the hobby store that I know personally and is a friend as well, lost the distribution due to TM handing it over to Trinity. The store was getting everything from Pheonix until TM pulled the account from them. So I was WAY STOKED for like 2 weeks until I heard the news.

No one trully wants to use the internet for all their shopping, not when you could drive 10-15 minutes, hell even an hour drive and just go buy the stuff at the hobby store. But when your LHS can't, won't or doesn't have the car or parts then you just ran out of options. It's a drag. Plus the person running that shop needs to have top notch customer support. This creates a good relationship for all the customers and the owners of the hobby stores. But it's hard work and not the easiest thing to do. But it's a must these days for the "internet" competition. Bottom line is who gives you the support and has the product will come out ahead every time. It's tough competition for LHS's these days. But I would rather drive and pay more if I had to if the LHS carried the stuff I needed. Unfortunatley I have NO choice. And it sucks.

Anyway...moving right along, what do you know about their 1/8th scale project? any idea. I am very close to wanting to get a new 1/8th scale and wasn't sure if the TM rumors were true or not. But it sounds as though they are. SWEET!!! I hope they come up with something wicked! Maybe I'll jump on their site and see if I can find anything. Please, do tell if you have any info ZOOM. It would be very appreciated. Anyway bro, it's been good chatting with you.

By the way...how's the married life?? About the same as the pre married life? I always hated getting asked that question. My answer would be like...Dude, it's the exact same other then this ring on my finger. And all the RC cars I could have bought if I didn't have to get her that darn 1karat ring! Take it easy man. Later.
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Old 04-12-2007, 07:13 AM   #5912
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I will be there

As soon as I can get my car fixed and build up enough spare parts to have on stand by
If you need any help with your settins let me know... mine is not a perfect setup yet, but close enough to give a big surprise.

As far of parts I have a few on stanby .....that if you need them you can use them, so now there's no excuses for not showing up.... ...

Are you going to make it for the Pro Series?
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Old 04-12-2007, 07:38 AM   #5913
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if my post was read accordingly , i did state Daz first on the list. as far as im concerned Darren has put in the hardest yards, so deservingly should be rewarded. what i feel is strange, is if you look on the TM site, they are quick to post the pics and results of Daz, Dario and recently Gansei. so if they are so willing to use these guys in the marketing strategy on their website, then why are they holding back ? this i feel is what D was meaning by who benefits, the distributor or TM ? i mean no disrespect to any distributor of the product in any part of the world. but the reason why i went overseas in the first place, was due to no shops carrying the parts, and emails werent answered. so is it my fault i had to look overseas for my parts ? i dont want to start any blah blah by this, just my experience, and others i know. no disrespect meant by this at all.
I don't think you got my point. But I'm not going to bung on about it.

I also wasn't saying that you should not have gone O/S. You have your experience and you did what you thought was best for you. Nothing wrong with that.

I will clear one thing up though, your experience of unanswered emails was quite some time ago, I have also had an unanswered email from your sponsor so no-one is immune.

I am sending you a PM as well.
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Old 04-12-2007, 07:50 AM   #5914
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Originally Posted by Z00M
I don't think you got my point. But I'm not going to bung on about it.

I also wasn't saying that you should not have gone O/S. You have your experience and you did what you thought was best for you. Nothing wrong with that.

I will clear one thing up though, your experience of unanswered emails was quite some time ago, I have also had an unanswered email from your sponsor so no-one is immune.

I am sending you a PM as well.
ok , firstly i was replying to a seperate quote to the one where you explained your thaughts. i had just got home and shopping needs to be done so i had little time. i am sorry for that as i was half way through shopping and thaught about your posts after that quote. then i said to my self i may had misled you to what i meant. Your thaughts on the sponsored drivers and driving the cost of the kits, is a good point, and taken. i just didnt have time to reply to that particular quote. so now on the emails, i never singled anyone out, and it was very recent that i had no reply. so then you just happen to single my sponsor out oh well not a problem for me. But i do believe if any driver gets a backing from TM it should be Daz first, yeah ? i just dont believe it should be left to the Distributors or shops to do so, thats all. looking forward to the PM .
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Old 04-12-2007, 07:55 AM   #5915
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Originally Posted by Serpentd
Anyway...moving right along, what do you know about their 1/8th scale project? any idea. I am very close to wanting to get a new 1/8th scale and wasn't sure if the TM rumors were true or not. But it sounds as though they are. SWEET!!! I hope they come up with something wicked! Maybe I'll jump on their site and see if I can find anything. Please, do tell if you have any info ZOOM. It would be very appreciated. Anyway bro, it's been good chatting with you.

By the way...how's the married life?? About the same as the pre married life? I always hated getting asked that question. My answer would be like...Dude, it's the exact same other then this ring on my finger. And all the RC cars I could have bought if I didn't have to get her that darn 1karat ring! Take it easy man. Later.
I don't know anything about the new 1/8th car at this stage. I was actually referring to the previous 1/8th car they had (Shock I think it was called). So no scoop available.

Married life is, like you answered, the same with a ring and yes, my electric offroad and 1/12th carpet cars and equipment are on her finger.
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Old 04-12-2007, 07:56 AM   #5916
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I'm sure you guys are just going to love this, but I'll just get into anyway...

Team Magic is first and foremost a business and like most businesses, it needs to meet two objectives - stay in business and generate a profit. Did I forget customer satisfaction? More on this in a bit.

In order to understand Team Magic's mindset, we would really have to get a better idea of what it's sales look like by country and by product line. We would also have to factor in operating expenses, marketing, production costs and R&D budget. Are they making a lot of money or just enough to get by? And if they are making money, where is most of it coming from? How much of it goes back into the company versus being taken out? Take a look at this quote from their Web site:

Quote:
Originally Posted by http://www.teammagic.com.tw/en/aboutfra.jsp?tag=about3&id=3
Having a new cool building is a good thing, but it also brought along with it some negative side effects. We had spent more time and money on the building and the development of new products were unfortunately delayed. Therefore, instead of the anticipated quick growth, sales were only stable at the time.
Does anybody know how many G4/s kits have been sold? In what countries do most of those kits reside? How many of them are actually raced? These are all important questions that need to be taken into consideration.

As far as customer satisfaction goes, we all know a company can't stay in business for too long if your customer's aren't happy - but everyone knows, you can't make everyone happy - so you try to take care of the majority. If 95% of their customer base is happy with their products and that group accounts for 95% of their revenue, then I would say that they have done an outstanding job.

If they are making a profit and most of their customer are happy, it doesn't mean they have to conquer the world and become a dominant player in every country. It doesn't mean that they have to sponsor racers to generate more sales or show up for major events. We may think they should - but since when did the tail wag the dog? Team Magic has it's own agenda.

Keep in mind, that on a global scale, you guys are just a small fraction of Team Magic's customer base. Internationally, a lot of guys never find their way to this thread and even if they do, language can be a barrier. I think all of the issues that have been stated are valid, but where do you guys fall in the bigger scheme of things for Team Magic? Also think along the lines of target market, short and long term strategy. Where does off-road fit into their plans? Perhaps they see that as a more profitable product line.

As has been pointed out, Team Magic has only been in the business for a short time - and even shorter when it comes to producing Nitro cars. More G4 wins will bring attention to the car and show it's true potential - but it's going to take a bit more time before it earns the respect that it deserves and becomes established. Once it becomes more established, perhaps the car will get more support - but it depends. Maybe you guys just need to be a bit more patient. Pain? Yes. But that's just how these things seem to work.

Just my 2 cents...

BTW... It would be just too funny if Team Magic made more money from hop-ups, tools and bags than from selling the G4S.
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Old 04-12-2007, 07:58 AM   #5917
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Originally Posted by Z00M
I don't know anything about the new 1/8th car at this stage. I was actually referring to the previous 1/8th car they had (Shock I think it was called). So no scoop available.

Married life is, like you answered, the same with a ring and yes, my electric offroad and 1/12th carpet cars and equipment are on her finger.
May be we need to hook you up with a brushless Hoover Vacuum
Im sure if there was one available id be already using one
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Old 04-12-2007, 08:11 AM   #5918
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BTW... It would be just too funny if Team Magic made more money from hop-ups, tools and bags than from selling the G4S.
Isn't this their core business? And yes, I know it is too.
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Old 04-12-2007, 09:26 AM   #5919
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Hello guys,

I have read many of the listings above and have been emailed also in request of some answers to the questions. So if I can try to shed a bit of light on some of these areas let me try.

Let's start out with Team Magic and Team Magic brands themselves. Team Magic is a very strong and resourceful company. Yes still young in a market where others were at the very start of the onroad car hobby. Though young, as with any good company, it is the people around you that can make you and carry you to the top quickly. Also with any young company, there are mistakes made along the way. These mistakes are also made by experience companies as well so they are excusable as long as they learn from them. Team Magic listens to the racers, if any of you have ever written to them you know. They will make changes if the idea improves the performance of their car. Team Magic is basically a two car company right now. The G4S being the throughbred of the stable and an off road buggy getting it tweaks done now and just wait and see what will come from this buggy! So Team Magic's growth in cars is slow by some standards, but very stable and very solid. I can tell you now that the projects they have underway, when the timing is right for the introductions, Team Magic will be one of the Top companies in the United States as well as Europe. Unlike some companies, Team Magic knows a lot now, and is learning (absorbing the knowledge ) more about US market faster than some of the old stand bys. Products in the future will show this to be true!

Now with the above stated about the company, quickly I will state there is probably not a better after market product manufacturer in quality, looks, and with performance than K Factory products. I don't know about you guys, but I hate to even take a new item that I want badly in my car now.... out of that great looking package. This company is amazing and my hat is off to all their R & D, and packaging team!

Now the real subject above is sponsorship of the G4S. We have done great in Europe with the G4S, but that doesn't translate to sales and growth of the car here in the States very rapidly. This is a true area that Team Magic needs to address. I have said this many times and I will repeat it here also, the concept which started many years ago, long before most of you on this thread were born yet, that kills me.. but another time for that!! lol, the concept of he who wins on Sunday sells on Monday. Although that was/is for the auto industry, it still touches home here. If a new hobbyist is interested in a car kit and ask a buddy, the buddy will will say, well I like mine but xyz won last week at the nationals, might check that car out also!

There are many good drivers out there. But the true top guys that can bring the car to a National title are few in numbers. I have always said this about our G4S and Mike Swauger. He could take the G4S 45 minutes before the worlds, do his adjustments, and he will either win or be in the top 5 with it! Yes the G4S is good. But Mikey is beyond us mortals! I use to watch Mikey race up in Northern California when he was a kid the same height as I am. Now he is over 6' and I am the same height... ok another story for later...

Two points about the above staement. Yes Mikey is beyond us mortals, but the G4S is truly that good and getting better everyday. Getting better because racers like yourself come up with performance enhancing ideas and Team Magic listens. But back to the point, yes we do need the top drivers. However they do cost money, and the cost is just not for one race, but an added salary to a company's payroll. Then how many top drivers do you add, how many others do you give support. That cost money also. Another fact here, the on road market is not as big as the off road market. The off road market is 4 times larger? Ask Dana at Revelation track in California. Better for him to throw dirt on the pavement - financially. Not because he loves Off Road more than on road, but dollars talking.

We need to support all the tracks, permanent or mobile throughout the US if we wish to keep this our hobby growing and have companies like Team Magic sponsor high cost drivers and support others. Organizations like RC Pro that Raceday Hobbies became a class sponsor ( Pro Sedan Class is now Raceday Hobbies Pro Sedan Class) are working hard to give present and new racers a chance to have a program to participate in. GO TO THEIR RACES GUYS ALL OVER THE US! Show other potential hobbyist what a great hobby you are a part. Everything is cyclical. The on road will come back. But we could make it happen faster if we don't get lazy and take for granted the tracks and the people out there working to give us a place to race.

Back to Team Magic. I can tell you this much. The G4S will have in the near future a top name driver that can bring this car to the podium in National races. This will happen not tomorrow but very soon. In addition, Raceday Hobbies is interested in giving support to B main and A main regional type racers from all areas of the United States as well. Even if these drivers are driving another car but would be interested in driving the G4S have them contact Raceday at [email protected]. We know we have a podium car in the G4S and we will get it there. However the racers here on this thread are the ones Team Magic is interested in keeping happy. So continue with the ideas and keep this thread the best on RC Tech!

Sam
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Old 04-12-2007, 09:51 AM   #5920
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great words from Sam there are important statements between words.. team magic designs a truggy ???? I think we'll see team magic in off-road scene more.. G4S+ is on the way I think.. I think they will rlease it in the middle of season.. a sponsored top driver comes.. great news


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Old 04-12-2007, 09:56 AM   #5921
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Just to touch up on what Sam said, I wanna give an example, the Ofna/Picco JLR "Red-Dot" engine was unknown until I believe Jeffery Lin won the Kyosho Race and Placed very high if not won the winter nats.

Now that engine is selling like hot cakes, I bought one, and many other people bought one now that they know its good.


The G4S is the same way, its a great car, but no one knows or cares because there is no headline news saying it won a big race in the states.


now on a second note, what really gets to me is the fact that the M1 hasn't won any major races in the states, its fairly brand new, and has probably 70% more parts support then the G4S.

That is why I started this on RCCA and brought it over here, there is no excuse for one car to be so much more popular then the other when neither has won anything HUGE in the states.
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Old 04-12-2007, 10:00 AM   #5922
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nooooo i just bought my g4s 2 months ago and now there's a new one!

what more can they improve!

will it have a update kit like they had for the mongoose -> G4s kit
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Old 04-12-2007, 10:04 AM   #5923
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Originally Posted by rcrevolution
nooooo i just bought my g4s 2 months ago and now there's a new one!

what more can they improve!

will it have a update kit like they had for the mongoose -> G4s kit
G4S+ is an estimate I think they will include ED trans. with it, maybe different type rear sway bar also.. Your decision is fine, I acted like you and am so much happy with my car

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Old 04-12-2007, 10:10 AM   #5924
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why upgrade whats already great?


if its not broken, don't fix it


now if they had a ED transmisison (an updated version) then im sure thats something we can add to our g4s, and also the sway bars if there's something new hopefully it will all be bolt on to our car.

not like the differences between a mtx-3 and mtx-4.

also Sam you run Raceday right? Any news on TM bring back a perimeter crash kit? I'm gonna try email them and ask if they can try that out again, there are alot more g4,mongeese, and g4s on the roads/tracks now so it should sell alot better. Maybe release one with a-arms, hubs, front/rear bulk heads, shock towers, some shock ends/ ballcups, rear brace, that would be sweet.
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Old 04-12-2007, 12:46 PM   #5925
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Default G4S marketing? What marketing?

I just think they need better distributor.. or someone that will take them seriously. Trinity is so busy pushing their own products they don't have the time or desire to make anything out of the TM cars. I don't know what they were thinking when they married rd logics.. that was a terrible decision. No marketing.. Way back when g4 first came out, trinity did do a good job pushing it but now.... I mean come on. When did G4S come out? They are selling it more as a shelf queen than anything else.
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