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Old 03-11-2007, 10:10 PM   #5176
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I have metioned this to Patto in an email so I feel he won't mind me posting this on here in regards to K Factory parts. Patto's accident was a sad part of racing. Unfortunately it has or will happen to all of us. It hurts because of the lost race result and also because of the wallet $'s that has to be hit on Monday for replacement parts.

The hit Patto took was in the front froze the front axles rotation. I know Paul even needs to replace his front belt. The front belt is connected to the middle shaft where the broken pulley is attached. When all in front stops in rotation something else in the car doesn't stop. This is the 2 speed shaft that is turning 30,000 plus rpm's. Why is this important since it is in the back of the car and the hit is in the front? Remember the side pulley on the 2 speed shaft is also turning a belt at 30,000 plus rpm's. That belt is attached to that front side pulley on the middle shaft that pulley is not turning. Now cause and effect. The belt is turning at these high rpm's and the front pulley isn't. So something had to give, the belt or the pulley, or the shaft. This hollow shaft snapped.

The ED Transmission is built for speed. Rotating mass is an optimum consideration. A steel shaft could have been used as it was in the stock kit, but high performance parts and their manufacturers would only be expected to have a lightweight shaft as they have. No these shafts are not made for head on hits. They are made for us to go fast. Although this part was not hit directly, there were other causes for the shaft to break. When puttin the pulley on the shaft, it is only to be screwed on the shaft. Not so tight that it will never come off... cause and effect of this is a broken shaft, so please just screwed the pulley on the shaft completely on let the screw hold this pulley in place.

Patto is a friend and a sponsored driver of Raceday Hobbies and doing a super job with his G4S every week now. We understand his pain and frustration. As a matter of fact I think we all do. He will bounce back and his A Main win is just a touch away. One less car making turns in the middle of a straightaway and Patto is number one! As he is as a person he shall be as a driver!
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Old 03-11-2007, 10:42 PM   #5177
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I fully support what Sam is saying.
In ALL RACING FORMS there are "Trade Offs"..
Light wieght has ALWAYS mean't less durable or shorter Life. " ALWAYS "!!!
In R/C just Like ALL racing, trade-offs can be advantagious and WILL
always be some dis Advantages usually deadly ones.
Thats Racing. Wake and smell the Coffee Boys.
Your Racing HIGH Powered Machines. Not Toys'R'Us cars.
At 30,000 RPM , Steel doesn't even hold up some times, its just to much
mass rotating at a MENTAL speeds.
So think twice before complaining about Upgrades.
Just remember " Lighter usaully means Faster but more Fragile".
Sure there are some exceptions like Titaniun Stuff but the trade off there would be $$$$ CASH.
Anyway, its good to learn from this and be wise about it.
Sometimes we think of more and more speed and we forget about
durability and our wallets.

P.S: In addition I would like to say I've enjoyed reading up on this forum
and truely respect you guys for sticking together.
Good Job.
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Old 03-11-2007, 10:45 PM   #5178
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G4S'er
I have metioned this to Patto in an email so I feel he won't mind me posting this on here in regards to K Factory parts. Patto's accident was a sad part of racing. Unfortunately it has or will happen to all of us. It hurts because of the lost race result and also because of the wallet $'s that has to be hit on Monday for replacement parts.

The hit Patto took was in the front froze the front axles rotation. I know Paul even needs to replace his front belt. The front belt is connected to the middle shaft where the broken pulley is attached. When all in front stops in rotation something else in the car doesn't stop. This is the 2 speed shaft that is turning 30,000 plus rpm's. Why is this important since it is in the back of the car and the hit is in the front? Remember the side pulley on the 2 speed shaft is also turning a belt at 30,000 plus rpm's. That belt is attached to that front side pulley on the middle shaft that pulley is not turning. Now cause and effect. The belt is turning at these high rpm's and the front pulley isn't. So something had to give, the belt or the pulley, or the shaft. This hollow shaft snapped.

The ED Transmission is built for speed. Rotating mass is an optimum consideration. A steel shaft could have been used as it was in the stock kit, but high performance parts and their manufacturers would only be expected to have a lightweight shaft as they have. No these shafts are not made for head on hits. They are made for us to go fast. Although this part was not hit directly, there were other causes for the shaft to break. When puttin the pulley on the shaft, it is only to be screwed on the shaft. Not so tight that it will never come off... cause and effect of this is a broken shaft, so please just screwed the pulley on the shaft completely on let the screw hold this pulley in place.

Patto is a friend and a sponsored driver of Raceday Hobbies and doing a super job with his G4S every week now. We understand his pain and frustration. As a matter of fact I think we all do. He will bounce back and his A Main win is just a touch away. One less car making turns in the middle of a straightaway and Patto is number one! As he is as a person he shall be as a driver!
yes i agree totally with the momentum side of things and the weight as a performance product.
but durability is a factor. i know it was a hard hit, but also nothing broke on the car but this pulley shaft. so here is what i think happened in sequence.
1, the impact and momentum fractured the shaft, YES i agree
2, the momentum kept turning the pulley, yes ?
now from here is this, the screw is normal thread that screws into the shaft. so the rotation direction, actually undoes the screw.
so what if the screw is left hand thread ? again i state what i see
the impact would still fracture the shaft, YES.
the momentum ? it would not come undone and loose the pulley from the shaft, so at best the belt would loose some teeth, but still driveable.
again this is just what i see as a possible solution to this problem. not having ago at anyone, dont take me the wrong way, please.
just a simple soution with out adding weight or any major modification. i will post pics of this shaft very shortly.
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Old 03-11-2007, 10:47 PM   #5179
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EagleOne2006
I fully support what Sam is saying.
In ALL RACING FORMS there are "Trade Offs"..
Light wieght has ALWAYS mean't less durable or shorter Life. " ALWAYS "!!!
In R/C just Like ALL racing, trade-offs can be advantagious and WILL
always be some dis Advantages usually deadly ones.
Thats Racing. Wake and smell the Coffee Boys.
Your Racing HIGH Powered Machines. Not Toys'R'Us cars.
At 30,000 RPM , Steel doesn't even hold up some times, its just to much
mass rotating at a MENTAL speeds.
So think twice before complaining about Upgrades.
Just remember " Lighter usaully means Faster but more Fragile".
Sure there are some exceptions like Titaniun Stuff but the trade off there would be $$$$ CASH.
Anyway, its good to learn from this and be wise about it.
Sometimes we think of more and more speed and we forget about
durability and our wallets.

P.S: In addition I would like to say I've enjoyed reading up on this forum
and truely respect you guys for sticking together.
Good Job.
thanks for Joining this subject Angelo. i hope everyone can work together to make this a problem of the past.
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Old 03-11-2007, 10:52 PM   #5180
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I think I understand what you mean about the screw and everything.
I would like to see those pics.
Maybe give your front Belt alittle more slack so that in a Major Impack,
The middle belt can GIVE alittle. In otherwords, Fine TUNING the Belt Tensioner. Maybe K Factory should make a Spring loaded Belt Tensioner
for the Middle Belt. This would be a better solution and simple for everyone to apply. Its been done before..
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Old 03-11-2007, 11:01 PM   #5181
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ok my front belt is fine, i emailed Sam for some stock of parts, thats all.
i think this has been confused in the midst of things.
i am talking about the retaining screw that goes into the shaft. not the saft itself that the pulley screws onto, it is already left hand thread. so i am talking about the retaining hex head screw. the rear side retaining screw is left hand thread, why not the others ?
i believe this would fix any issues of spur holders coming loose, as it happened 2 rounds ago, the 1st spur holder and 2 speed cam came out of the car
but the 27t pulley shaft would still fracture, i am not shying away from this.
the threaded shaft was still attatched to the side gear. it was the retaining screw that allowed the pulley to be undone by the 'momentum' if it was left hand thread it would have stayed intact, and i could have still finished 2nd, and not ended my race like this. pics very soon
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Old 03-11-2007, 11:08 PM   #5182
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ok here are the pics. the retaining screw and the rest of the threaded shaft is still on the 27t pulley.
Attached Thumbnails
Team Magic G4-ed-1.jpg   Team Magic G4-ed-2.jpg   Team Magic G4-ed-3.jpg  
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Last edited by Pattojnr; 03-11-2007 at 11:19 PM.
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Old 03-11-2007, 11:14 PM   #5183
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where?
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Old 03-11-2007, 11:20 PM   #5184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EagleOne2006
where?
sorry my files were too big and it didnt allow them
had to resize them
lol
sorry guys.
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Old 03-11-2007, 11:29 PM   #5185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pattojnr
ok my front belt is fine, i emailed Sam for some stock of parts, thats all.
i think this has been confused in the midst of things.
i am talking about the retaining screw that goes into the shaft. not the saft itself that the pulley screws onto, it is already left hand thread. so i am talking about the retaining hex head screw. the rear side retaining screw is left hand thread, why not the others ?
i believe this would fix any issues of spur holders coming loose, as it happened 2 rounds ago, the 1st spur holder and 2 speed cam came out of the car
but the 27t pulley shaft would still fracture, i am not shying away from this.
the threaded shaft was still attatched to the side gear. it was the retaining screw that allowed the pulley to be undone by the 'momentum' if it was left hand thread it would have stayed intact, and i could have still finished 2nd, and not ended my race like this. pics very soon
Dude, you are 100% correct. Parts can ALWAYS be improved. and the left handed threads would be and improvement! When I twisted my shaft, I was cranking down on it with my hands only. No tools. Yes I was cranking good, but didn't think I was super man at the time. Either I had a weak (defective) piece, I over torqued with my hands, or there is a slight issue with the shaft. The part where it snapped is VERY thin!! Yes with perfomance can come weakness, but to what extent?? This shaft needs to be looked at IMO. Titanium is not going to cost any more then what we already are forking out for these things. Hardened aluminum is just to weak in this area of the shaft. This is a fact, otherwise we wouldn't have this issue. I have NEVER heard of a shaft shearing off in any other car manufacturer or what not. It's just plainly un heard of. The Left handed threads would be an easy fix for KFactory for sure, instead of going back to the drawing board.

Parts will ALWAYS break in an accident. Yes. But if it's the same expensive part every time then it needs to be addressed. It's not like this is a plastic spur gear or something. This shaft is so small that if it was solid titanium with both gears Keyed on and held by screws, this would solve the problem as well without costing any more or sacrificing rotating mass. It's a great design with a small but noticeable flaw. After all, how can an impact shear this gear yet have NO other damage to the car??? A belt should have given well before a shaft. Well, I could go on...Shit happens, but I think this should at least be looked into. This post is not to discredit anyone or have disrespect to anyone by any means. It's ONLY my opinion. Please remember that. Thanks all for your understanding!!!! Later.
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Old 03-11-2007, 11:32 PM   #5186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EagleOne2006
where?
Dude, it's tapered so it's hard to see. The shaft is flush on the inside of the pulley where you can see the threads of the screw. about 4 or 5 threads are showing. Hope this makes sence.
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Old 03-11-2007, 11:34 PM   #5187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by revo523
What do you think serpentd?
DUDE!!! I like your way of thinking my friend! Maybe I can hand paint it there, I will give it a go bro!!!!
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Old 03-11-2007, 11:58 PM   #5188
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Serpentd
Dude, it's tapered so it's hard to see. The shaft is flush on the inside of the pulley where you can see the threads of the screw. about 4 or 5 threads are showing. Hope this makes sence.
ok here is a shaft that is in one piece. hope this can clarify how this goes together. the 27t pulley is screwed on to the shaft , left hand thread.
the retaining screw screws normally into the shaft. if it was left hand thread it would have kept the pulley on the shaft, and not unwound itself due to the threaded shaft breaking at the taper.
Attached Thumbnails
Team Magic G4-ed4.jpg   Team Magic G4-ed4.jpg  
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Last edited by Pattojnr; 03-12-2007 at 12:11 AM.
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Old 03-12-2007, 12:47 AM   #5189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pattojnr
ok here is a shaft that is in one piece. hope this can clarify how this goes together. the 27t pulley is screwed on to the shaft , left hand thread.
the retaining screw screws normally into the shaft. if it was left hand thread it would have kept the pulley on the shaft, and not unwound itself due to the threaded shaft breaking at the taper.

Grat posts Patto and good input from Serpentd and everyone else here.
Information like this and letting everyone in the family know better arms us for the future and for making or getting improvements done on the car.

It's continuous improvement on the car which we nead and posts like this with everyone's imput really helps!
Even if sometimes we end up taking 3 steps foreward then 2 back again

Again, great imput guys. This right here is why I like to run the G4s and be a part of all this.

Respect,
Menace
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Old 03-12-2007, 01:03 AM   #5190
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On the ED shaft issue I think its just that the thickness of the material at the end of the thread is very thin with it being drilled and tapped out as well.
A relook at the taper can solve the problem or possibly not tapping the locking screw in as deep so u can use a shorter screw.
Or maybe even use a longer screw to give it some strength.
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