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Old 02-05-2007, 02:33 AM   #3796
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HELP HELP HELP
are any aussie guys that know were i can get a rear swaybar blade this week
snaped mine trying to move without loosning the grub screw enough
there are none in WA or SA and the wholesales dont have any
so if anyone know were i can get one in the eastern state please let me know
paul
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Old 02-05-2007, 02:49 AM   #3797
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gtrmx
OK, let's try to give out the best answers I can...

It´s difficult to say where to start.

Front shock oil. I changed it from 50 to 40 because there was a small bump at the end of the straigthaway. The slightly thinner oil cured the tendency to go airborne into that section. Other than that small bump the track is fairly smooth.

Did not want to go too soft either because there was a high speed sweeper right after. So try to picture going full throttle for the long straightaway, briefly lifting and then heavy throttle again for the sweeper. This is where the rear toe-in helped a lot!!

It is weird really, but the blue spring and heavy front antiroll bar contributed to keeping the car from rolling too much into that sweeper. Harder springs made the car push. Lighter springs caused a little tire wobbling.

The 3.5° rear toe in gave me the confidence of running into the sweeper at high speed. 3° did not feel as good. The 50k wt rear diff does not act as much going into the turns as it does when applying throttle again. This gave me back the on-throttle steering I needed when exiting the tight U-turn positioned at the end of the sweeper.

Three heavy braking zones kept me away from using a one-way, but a locked diff induced push. That mandated using a diff.

During test I could not handle a 50k oil front diff because that induced too much on-power steering. I could not use lighter oil than 50k at the rear because the car pushed out of the hairpins. So why not reducing rear toe?? 3° of toe made the car feel a little uneasy after the straightaway and into the high speed sweeper. If I loose speed into it then the car in front is gone!

One thing drove me to another. So I had to compromise a little turn in with a 70k front diff. It did not take away too much steering into the turns. That wasn't too bad!! Again, less toe was not an option.

The blue springs and position actually came as a result of trying several combinations for the front. Blue springs gave me the best steering. Softer and harder felt less aggresive.

Well, the rear shock oil is different at the back because I just felt I did not need to touch it.

Anti roll bar selection resulted simply from testing the best combination. Hardest at the front, lightest at the rear. Other combinations just did not feel right. Same goes for the rear roll center. I gave off-power steering a priority over on-power, but the hard rear diff gave me back the tight turning out of the hole!

Our track layout is extremely mixed!! Our track times are at the 21.5 sec range. We have a very long straightaway (70 mts) starting off at a full-on-throttle chicane. Then comes the fast sweeper ending into a harpin.
Next is a set of light switchbacks (right-left with about 1/4 throttle) with the second harpin of the track at the end. That U-turn is then followed by another light right turn and a 135° left. Then comes the 30 mts long pit straight into the third hairpin of the track, turning left. That was the heaviest braking zone of all, immediately after changing to 2nd gear. 90° right hander, 10 mts shoot and then the fourth hairpin. This hairpin was extremely critical to have good on power steering because it is followed by a 30 mts long straight. To finish off the circuit comes a 1/2 throttle, wide radius 135° turn. Its radius is about 7 mts. Then comes the trickiest part of all and that is to initiate the quick chicane into the long straightaway, for the next lap.

Track is abrassive. I had to start the 40 min main with all tires at different diameters. Front left 40 shore at 61.5mm, Front right 40 shore with 62.5 mm, rear left 40 shore with 63.5 mm and new-out-of-the box 42 shore rear right tire. All nitro shoes tires with serpent rim. Diameters all ended up within 1 mm, but with overdrive. Fronts finish larger than rears, that is, even over the natural split the ED transmission requires. When the tires are at this point, the car has a ride height of about 5mm front and rear. I worry about final ride height rather than initial, which probably yields a tall standing car at the start of the race. I prefer that, though, to loosing time going wide if the chassis bottoms out during the last minutes.

Grip is tipically very low as the track gets dusty easily. Only during big races does the race line clean up a bit to mid-bite condition.

So we have a long straight, four hairpins, three heavy braking zones, two mild switchbacks, one fast chicane, one fast sweeper, one half-throttle wide key-hole and a great fun track!

Just in case you are curious, I finished 2nd at only 5 secs behind the leader. We lapped the rest of the field in a 106 lap race. I hit the fast speed chicane once and was lucky to have the car fall out the track into the grass on all four. The engine did not stall. Just had enough time to let off the throttle a bit before the incident.
DUUUUUUDE! All I can say is WOW! I was getting fired up as you were describing your track layout. What a track! I can definately tell that you have tied just about every type of set up you can do to a car to get your results. Which after your very thorough explanation makes total sense on how you ended up where you did. Like I said before...it wasn't way out there, but at the same time it was quite unique. It sounds as though that set up will get you through just about any type of track that's tossed your way. I would love to see a picture of that track if you know where I can look on the web. Or if you have a chance to take a few pics yourself someday. Very awesome! Where is your track located at?

A couple of questions:

1. Did the ED tranny help compared to the stock system (if you ever ran stock)? If so, what did you notice most about it

2. What gearing are you using for that track?

3. What brand of shock oil do you use? If you use TM, is that a similar viscosity to Serpent or Mugen? Or is it more like Losi and Associated?

4. It sounds like you are using TM shock springs. Are you happy with these springs? And have you ever tried a Serpent or Mugen spring or brand X instead. I'm not sure what springs to start out with. I own the TM, Serpent, Mugen, Xray...I think everything other then Kyosho. I ask this because the TM springs have 5 or even 4 coils whereas the other brands use 6 and some 5. Does this question make sense? The TM spring seem very adequite to me, however I still haven't got to run my car because of the cold ass weather and snow. We are having a nice day if it gets above freezing during the day with the sun out.

Well bro, thanks a ton for your input. It has tought me a lot about the car that I didn't understand 100%. I still need my own "hands on", but you shed some light in a lot of areas. Good job by the way with your driving today. That is by far one of the longest courses I have heard of being at a 21.5 sec lap. Damn!!! I'm use to 16-18.5 second laps on all the tracks I've been on. Right on dude, you take care! Later.
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Old 02-05-2007, 02:54 AM   #3798
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gascar 24
HELP HELP HELP
are any aussie guys that know were i can get a rear swaybar blade this week
snaped mine trying to move without loosning the grub screw enough
there are none in WA or SA and the wholesales dont have any
so if anyone know were i can get one in the eastern state please let me know
paul
Call Hobby Express, the TM importer. www.hobbyexpress.com.au , they will direct you to a shop.

Also try
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Old 02-05-2007, 03:24 AM   #3799
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Originally Posted by black-knight
Call Hobby Express, the TM importer. www.hobbyexpress.com.au , they will direct you to a shop.

Also try
thanks man will try
paul
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Old 02-05-2007, 04:47 AM   #3800
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Another video of fellow friend Toy000 busting some nice lines on Prac day 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YaDAA9CYdRo

Enjoy
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Old 02-05-2007, 06:38 AM   #3801
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gtrmx
Our track layout is extremely mixed!! Our track times are at the 21.5 sec range. We have a very long straightaway (70 mts) starting off at a full-on-throttle chicane. Then comes the fast sweeper ending into a harpin.
Next is a set of light switchbacks (right-left with about 1/4 throttle) with the second harpin of the track at the end. That U-turn is then followed by another light right turn and a 135° left. Then comes the 30 mts long pit straight into the third hairpin of the track, turning left. That was the heaviest braking zone of all, immediately after changing to 2nd gear. 90° right hander, 10 mts shoot and then the fourth hairpin. This hairpin was extremely critical to have good on power steering because it is followed by a 30 mts long straight. To finish off the circuit comes a 1/2 throttle, wide radius 135° turn. Its radius is about 7 mts. Then comes the trickiest part of all and that is to initiate the quick chicane into the long straightaway, for the next lap.

man that track sounds nuts, u got a pic of it ???
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Old 02-05-2007, 09:14 AM   #3802
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Serpentd
All of my cars have a "blade" style rear sway bar, so don't really know the options you have. In fact, I plan on trying some other manufactures blade sway bar on the G4S to see if it works. The G4S kit sway bar feels like a very soft metal to be used as a rear sway bar. Way softer then both Serpent and Mugen.
Serpentd, you have the Serpent and Mugen blades ? Do they fit the G4S blocks, or a mod is needed ?

Thankx for the info man.
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Old 02-05-2007, 11:50 AM   #3803
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After reading some of the latest posts around here, I thought it would be a good idea to repost a compilation of tips given by Darren Johnson and Dennis Richey some time ago. Hope they help.

AFM

SETTING TIPS ON THE G4 S

Tip on shocks:

When assembling the shocks don’t use the thin O-ring (502127), its not required, and if used can sometimes twist the bladder. I superglue the aluminum and plastic shock cap parts together, otherwise the plastic can twist, then twist the bladder. If bladders keep collapsing in on themselves, glue them so they don’t fall into the shocks, also you can try putting some O-rings, or a small piece of fuel tube on the shock shaft, above the plastic shock ball cup. this will stop the piston being pushed up too far when you don’t have a spring on the shock. Don’t fill the shocks up too much, I fill mine to about 1mm below the top of the shock body. Whatever bladder you use, if the shock is too full, or the piston gets pushed too far, bladder will collapse.

Tips on Springs:

When you try softer springs, you will find that you don't need a very big steering angle. Less steering angle means higher speed. The G4 has too low CG and the kit is too light. If you use hard springs up front, you will find that the car doesn't turn good. Also rear traction is no good if you use rear hard springs. Use TM springs 1.3~1.5, it is the only choice.

tm gray 1.9mm 52.0 lb/in
tm orange 1.8mm 41.5 lb/in
tm blue 1.7mm 31.0 lb/in
tm aqua 1.6mm 26.0 lb/in
tm silver kit stock 26.0 lb/in
tm purple 1.5mm 20.0 lb/in
tm pink 1.4mm 17.0 lb/in
tm fuccia 1.3mm 13.5 lb/in
tm green 1.2mm 11.0 lb/in

Tips on Shock oil:

Depends on track conditions and weather. We use a light weight oil all round (30wt or 40wt Associated), it will make a difference (check for conversion to other makes of oil I tried 40wt Schumacher and it was too stiff ).

In more hot weather conditions upping the oil wt will probably be needed.
Increasing the piston shock hole size from stock to 1.2 or 1.3mm Dia. works well, specially at the rear of the car.
90% of the time we don't use the rear bar on the car. We have raced all over this year from low traction parking lot to high traction Toledo, and I think Revelation is the exception early in the morning and late at night.

My opinion is if you have to run a tire 42 shore or harder on the front, remove the rear bar. That’s a good reference. I take off mine the minute I have to go to 42 fronts. usually by then I have loads of front steering I'm trying to get rid off.

Tips about suspension down stop:

low grip track: Front 0 / Rear +2 (start with this)
high grip track: Front +2 / Rear +4 (when your car is too sensitive)
super high grip track: Front +4 / Rear +4 (traction roll)

Front solid axle - Use it on low grip situations, where you need to brake hard for the corners. The hard braking will give you enough weight transfer to turn the car. The front solid axle will give you better acceleration out of the corners. If you don't plan on using a lot of brakes you should not be running a front solid axle.

Front One-Way – Use it on high grip situations. Light braking and fast and coasting corners are for one-ways.

Front differential- Will give you more turn-in for the corners, but you will sacrifice acceleration out of the corners. Of course you can control some of that with heavier differential fluid.
Most of the preferences between front solid axle vs. differential is driving preferences. Easy to drive with a differential is not always faster. I just never liked what you give up on acceleration out of a corner with a differential.

More steering /rotation:
· Narrowing the front track, making the front only 196-7mm. You can take about 2mm off the off the end of the front wishbones to reduce the front track width without any problems (you may need to shorten the end of the pivot balls too, depends which ones you use), it just gives you the option of running a narrow front track width (down to about 195mm), even with 1mm you can notice a difference. Once you have cut the ends off the wishbones then just measure each hub, from a point on the chassis (to get the same width each side). Just reducing the front by 1mm is noticeable so try it before going the full hog as you may well end up with too much steering/rotation.
· Shortening the wheelbase of the car by taking material from the lower rear “A” arms (wishbones) has a positive effect on improving the cars ability to 'rotate'. The rear lowers can be filed from the front by about 2.5mm, and a 2.5 mm spacer put behind the arm on the hinge, that’s how I have always run my car and it just makes the car rotate quicker.
· Using plenty of rear camber (3 to 4 degrees) and the use of overdrive also can improve rear traction.
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Old 02-05-2007, 03:17 PM   #3804
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Hey AFM, thanks for the post. It helps iron out what we have been posting on here lately. Actually, it doesn't only help, it ANSWERS the questions that I have been spectulating about since I got the car. So thank you very much!
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Old 02-05-2007, 11:36 PM   #3805
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Serpentd
DUUUUUUDE! All I can say is WOW! I was getting fired up as you were describing your track layout. What a track! I can definately tell that you have tied just about every type of set up you can do to a car to get your results. Which after your very thorough explanation makes total sense on how you ended up where you did. Like I said before...it wasn't way out there, but at the same time it was quite unique. It sounds as though that set up will get you through just about any type of track that's tossed your way. I would love to see a picture of that track if you know where I can look on the web. Or if you have a chance to take a few pics yourself someday. Very awesome! Where is your track located at?

A couple of questions:

1. Did the ED tranny help compared to the stock system (if you ever ran stock)? If so, what did you notice most about it

2. What gearing are you using for that track?

3. What brand of shock oil do you use? If you use TM, is that a similar viscosity to Serpent or Mugen? Or is it more like Losi and Associated?

4. It sounds like you are using TM shock springs. Are you happy with these springs? And have you ever tried a Serpent or Mugen spring or brand X instead. I'm not sure what springs to start out with. I own the TM, Serpent, Mugen, Xray...I think everything other then Kyosho. I ask this because the TM springs have 5 or even 4 coils whereas the other brands use 6 and some 5. Does this question make sense? The TM spring seem very adequite to me, however I still haven't got to run my car because of the cold ass weather and snow. We are having a nice day if it gets above freezing during the day with the sun out.

Well bro, thanks a ton for your input. It has tought me a lot about the car that I didn't understand 100%. I still need my own "hands on", but you shed some light in a lot of areas. Good job by the way with your driving today. That is by far one of the longest courses I have heard of being at a 21.5 sec lap. Damn!!! I'm use to 16-18.5 second laps on all the tracks I've been on. Right on dude, you take care! Later.

There are no pics of our track online...

I think I can get you a pic of just the layout, which I occasionally modify to post. It's just a simple drawing of our track. It has many options of layouts since it's all reconfigurable!! I'll be traveling for work for the rest of the week, but let me try to get you a pic later on during the week.

The ED transmission is absolutely necessary IMO!! It makes it easier for the car to take off, easier to set the clutch, it does improve bottom end speed and that just results in a higher top end as well. It relieves the engine of some unnecessary stress.

Gearing is 15, 21 and 51,46... stock gearing...

I am using Losi shock oil and ofna diff oil. Since ofna does not carry every multiple of 10k wt silicon I approximate to what I am looking for with 10k, 50k and 100k... kind of mix them in...

Your questions regarding the spring make total sense to me...
I also have Mugen, Kyosho, Serpent, HPI and other brands of springs...

I think Gansei once said he feels the Mugen front shock springs are very progressive but I have absolutely no complaints on the TM units. I actually love the little-box-o-springs!! You got there basically anything you could ever need for your racing...

I just spent the whole day at the track today fooling around with my setup...
I had previously been using a JP FX engine with a Skyline pipe. Today I used the Novarrossi 2630 and it worked better!! That along with other little changes made me drop my lap time from 21.570 to 21.280!! I changed the rear camber link to highest outside, lowest inside, which brings down the roll center. Also, I tightened up the spring in the servo saver to about 1.7mm.

Those three changes gave me a faster car all around. What is particularly pleasing is the fact that my previous best lap time was during the last important race in town with a better grip from many cars running around. My laps today were posted on a surface that has been washed by rains!! I can only imagine what my lap times can be with more rubber!! Please excuse the bragging!!
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Old 02-05-2007, 11:43 PM   #3806
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaDaGAS CAR
man that track sounds nuts, u got a pic of it ???

Ha,ha,ha,ha!!! now that you mention it, I cannot believe I wrote that track description. That is the result of reading F1 news and lots of track pre-views from the drivers... hahahaha!!

Let me work on those pics... I may have something hanging around in my laptop's hard drive... who knows what's in there now...
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Old 02-05-2007, 11:55 PM   #3807
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Originally Posted by afm
Front differential- Will give you more turn-in for the corners, but you will sacrifice acceleration out of the corners. Of course you can control some of that with heavier differential fluid.
Most of the preferences between front solid axle vs. differential is driving preferences. Easy to drive with a differential is not always faster. I just never liked what you give up on acceleration out of a corner with a differential.
You are looking for a compromise here. For sure the front locked diff will give lots of acceleration out of the hole but bad corner entry. However, I have found a combination of around 70k wt oil at the front and 50k wt oil at the rear to give me lots of turn in and lots of exit steering as well at my particular track. 50k at the rear may sound off but 70k up front balances it out. I think it was very well worth to try!! I would have never thought it could work just because it sounded kind of crazy first! I am extremely happy with that combo now!! Of course it will not work at every track. Our tracks are not the high bite type at all!!
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Old 02-06-2007, 01:29 AM   #3808
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GTRMx I think your setup mightjust suit the track we running next weekend for the nats.


It will be interesting to try out.
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Old 02-06-2007, 01:41 AM   #3809
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Quote:
Originally Posted by razzor
GTRMx I think your setup mightjust suit the track we running next weekend for the nats.


It will be interesting to try out.
wow razzor its a clean, neat and big track u have there. ours is just like rubbish. shall try to capture ours here in sibu, sarawak, east malaysia. its just like crap compared to yours, well its free sponsor by government (land only), on our old airport. but then we spent some money doing the track.
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Old 02-06-2007, 01:44 AM   #3810
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i have tried alot of different settings, but still this 1 suits me:

front droop : 0
front toe : 1
front chamber : 2
ride height : 5

rear droop : 5
rear toe : 3
rear chamber : around 4-4.5 (coz need fine tune for even wear)
ride height : 6

i have tried the standard stock setting of front droop 3, rear droop 4, can't barely drive with it on our track as rear tends to drift too much. keke.
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