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Old 11-23-2006, 07:17 AM   #2671
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gtrmx
Gansei,

This may or may not work for your clutch. I'll tell you how I set mine up so you can try. Notice that I race in very high cities. I live in at 1500 m above sea level. My last reace was at over 3000 m!! That could change things for you, but I run the 1.8mm clutch spring (yellow or green depending on how you see it), I use only one weight. I set my gap at 0.5 mm and only thighten the spring tension nut barely enough for it to show the clutch nut thread.

That is my departing point. What I do after that is move the clutch bell back and forth on 0.1 mm increments at a time. I usually don't thouch the mess with the spring tension and use the gap for adjustments instead. I really like my clutch that way.

Using one weight will create more push force as compared to using none.
If you use both weights will obviosly generate even more force but will cause the clutch to engage too early, which will force you to thread in the spring tension nut and move the clutchbell very far out.

I think Darren Johnson is threading in 0.8mm, using both weights and using a 0.8mm gap. I think he uses the 1.8mm spring. Daz, are you there reading this?

I hope that helps!

As for the GR Racing engine, I can use a 5 port TZ. That is OK, as long as I can get one of those.

Please let me know if they could get me one of those engines.

I have paypal, maybe that will help.

Thanks Gansei!!
thanks for your advise.

i am using ED mission.

and i thought that no shim clutch setting will be get more response than 1 or 2 shim.

But is it not true?

^^;;

and GR racing will send message to you about engine purchase.

have a nice day!

thanks.
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Old 11-23-2006, 08:49 AM   #2672
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pattojnr
what gearing are you using ? if you were running 18/52 for 1st gear previous to the ED trans then you will need the 15 T 1st pinion for the Ed trans. i too am dissapointed that you have to buy the 15/20 pinion combo to achieve better results than the stock trans system with 18/23 pinions and 52/47 spurs. the std gearing that comes with the ED trans actually reduces acceleration unless you buy the 15/20 pinion and bell to match. this combo achieves the better acceleration that everyone is after, but has to be purchased seperately to the ED system. but again it all depends which motor you are using
What you are saying does not ring true with my findings.
I used to run 18/24 pinions with stock spurs, but now I run 17/20 and have wicked punch and still feel slightly overgeard on the top end.

As for the clutch adjustment, I stand my motor on end so that the clutch is up, I then apply the clutch bell and spin it, if it binds then I add a shim, I keep doing this and adding shims until it doesn't bind anymore then add 1 more shim, I then apply shims to the thrust bearing end until I get a .3 end play gap.
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Old 11-23-2006, 09:02 AM   #2673
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Looks like the trend is going to smaller clutch endplay.
I used to run .5 then was advised .7 for punch and now with the ED guys seem to be going .3/.4
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Old 11-23-2006, 12:28 PM   #2674
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Does the G4S come with a front one way or a spool? I hope its a one way you can change to spool...
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Old 11-23-2006, 12:54 PM   #2675
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGTACO
Does the G4S come with a front one way or a spool? I hope its a one way you can change to spool...
Both, just remove the pins to make it a one-way
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Old 11-23-2006, 12:55 PM   #2676
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gansei
thanks for your advise.

i am using ED mission.

and i thought that no shim clutch setting will be get more response than 1 or 2 shim.

But is it not true?
I am not sure I understand your question, but I am assuming you are referring to the shims you use to set the clutch gap. Are those the shims placed outside the thrust bearing.

I am thinking you probably have too much of a gap and thus the clutch starts to slip. Back when you said you were not totally satisfied with your clutch setting, was it because the engine was revving high but the car did not look that fast?

The clutch can also slip when you do not use weights and the gap is large.

Hope that gives you a hint... I do not consider myself any guru in these matters but maybe a different point of view can open something for you!!
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Old 11-23-2006, 01:18 PM   #2677
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Lets brake this down a bit more to what each item will or will not do ,it will help understand setup better and helpful to newcomers rather than spread out over a couple of pages.

Clutch weights - pros
- cons

Flyweights material - pros
- cons

clutch shoe material - pros
- cons

clutch spring - pros
- cons

Clutch spring pre load - pros
-cons

clutch gap - pros
- cons

clutch bell end play - pros
- cons

Not sure if I got all items that are involved in tuning a clutch ,please add if I missed anything.
This is where I say thanks in advance to the guys in the know.
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Old 11-23-2006, 02:38 PM   #2678
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Hi All,

Clutch settings, where to start ! I think clutch settings can be very personal, so what works for one may not work for another......

For this whole season we have pretty much run :

2 weights in each shoe. BUT these are 2 of the brass weights from the old clutch, this is the same as running 1 of the steel weights that come with the UFO.

1.7 TM clutch spring

Red clutch shoe & weights

1.2 - 1.4mm tension on the clutch spring.

0.6mm Clutch gap

0.1mm end play

Have used this on stock & ED transmissions.

This worked well on low to medium grip tracks in the UK, it worked ok at the worlds in oz (high grip) but im sure there would have been a better solution. But we never have the grip to test that in the UK !

We havent really tested much else, but now the weather is rubbish, wont be able to test anything.....

But it does depend on engine, pipe, manifold, even changing from a medium to a short manifold can make a clutch slip too much !

The above settings are for a Nova Rossi Plus 12-3C, with a medium conical manifold and EFRA 2601 pipe.

Hope this helps.
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Old 11-23-2006, 03:39 PM   #2679
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NiMo
What you are saying does not ring true with my findings.
I used to run 18/24 pinions with stock spurs, but now I run 17/20 and have wicked punch and still feel slightly overgeard on the top end.

As for the clutch adjustment, I stand my motor on end so that the clutch is up, I then apply the clutch bell and spin it, if it binds then I add a shim, I keep doing this and adding shims until it doesn't bind anymore then add 1 more shim, I then apply shims to the thrust bearing end until I get a .3 end play gap.
im just reading by numbers on the gearing chart. to achieve the improved 7.59 ratio, you would have to use the 15 pinion. but by the sounds you have had more time with the ED trans than i have. unfortunatley i have a motor change at the same time, so i wont be able to tell the difference. but i do feel the 16/21 will suit my engine pipe combo at the moment, but i do have 15/20 as well. i too set my clutch like this, but run a slightly smaller end play and 2 shims instead of one inside the bell. i find it still has slight drag with 1 shim when everything is up to temp. slight heat expansion of the parts. looks like im in for some testing this weekend
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Old 11-23-2006, 05:41 PM   #2680
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rd logics mongoose is this car an older version of the g4, are parts still out there?
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Old 11-24-2006, 02:38 AM   #2681
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reddishdsb
rd logics mongoose is this car an older version of the g4, are parts still out there?
The Mongoose is indeed the predecessor to the G4S. All the standard G4S suspension and drive train components can be used on the Mongoose. You can even get a G4S upgrade kit if you so desire, to convert your Mongoose to current spec (except for the clutch - the G4S comes with the K-Factory UFO clutch as standard). While it would be cheaper to start with the G4S, if your budget needs to be stretched over a longer period then you can get the older car and upgrade as you need to.

To answer your initial question, yes all the Mongoose parts are still available.

Cheers,

Mike.
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Old 11-24-2006, 02:53 AM   #2682
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Quote:
Originally Posted by razzor

Clutch weights - pros
- cons

Flyweights material - pros
- cons

clutch shoe material - pros
- cons

clutch spring - pros
- cons

Clutch spring pre load - pros
-cons

clutch gap - pros
- cons

clutch bell end play - pros
- cons
Here are my thoughts and experiences:

Clutch weights - pros - You can tune the clutch feel:
lighter weight changes both the engagement point and also the aggressiveness(?) of the engagement.

- cons - too light and it's going to slip too much. Needs careful setup to not go too far.

Flyweights material - pros - I hope Daz can shed some light on this!
- cons

clutch shoe material - pros - As above!
- cons

clutch spring - pros - Heavier spring, the later and less progressive the clutch engagement. Too heavy and you might need to use very heavy weights to get the action you want.
- cons - heavy weights and heavy spring mean the clutch will be very aggressive when it engages. This is great on a prepped surface but not much good on an up-prepared surface.

Clutch spring pre load - pros - The more preload the later the engagement.
-cons - Too much preload and no engagement or slipping clutch.

clutch gap - pros - Changes the engagement point for the clutch.
- cons - Too big a gap and it's a compromise.

clutch bell end play - pros - Should always be 0.1mm.
- cons - any more than 0.1mm and you will be putting too much load on the thrust race.

As you can see, one thing can change the clutch action but there is more than one way to skin a cat.

If using light weights with a heavy spring (say 1.8mm black spring and no weights in the flyweights), the clutch will have a nice late engagement, but it will slip a little as it engages. This means you can be a bit more agressive with the throttle in slippery conditions.

If you use heavy weights with a heavy spring and a lot of preload(say 2 weights in each flyweight and the yellow 1.8mm spring with 1.5mm preload) then the clutch will come in nice and late but it will hit very hard with no slip possibly leading to a loss of traction through the turn when you get back on the power.

Tuning the clutch to the conditions and your driving style is certainly possible and there is an endless array of options and possibilities with the UFO clutch.

Cheers,

Mike.
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Old 11-24-2006, 11:34 AM   #2683
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Thanks daz ,Zoom .
This sheds some light on the clutch setup.
So essentially we have two aims depending on surface and driving style ie:
If surface has low to medium traction for a smoother power delivery we would look at less weights and a softer spring and for a high bite track and punchy power delivery look at more weights and a harder spring if necessary.

To fine tune the setup look at the clutch gap and spring pre load.

Hope I am on track here and am thinking in the right direction ,id rather sound daft and ask questions.

Ill be practicing tomorrow and will try different setups on the ED system.
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Old 11-24-2006, 11:56 AM   #2684
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pattojnr
i too set my clutch like this, but run a slightly smaller end play and 2 shims instead of one inside the bell. i find it still has slight drag with 1 shim when everything is up to temp. slight heat expansion of the parts. looks like im in for some testing this weekend
I am currently running 4 shims inside the clutchbell
What I meant to say was - add a shim and the test to see if it binds, if it does then add another shim then test it again, keep doing this and adding shims until it doesn't bind anymore, then add 1 more shim.
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Old 11-24-2006, 01:09 PM   #2685
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It sounds like good advice has been given on the clutch setup. Once you try a couple of different combinations it gets easier to set it up and understand the cause and effect.

I ran some numbers on the Ed trans today and found the split is 1.80 mm. If you run a 60 front, the rear should be close to 61.8 or 62. Has anyone else come up with the same or something different split?

Also on the Hot Shot front bulkhead. For those that own that system and found the alloy top plate(shock tower) to be weak upon a hit, your are right! Answer to this is two fold. First, the weak spots are the to rear arms going to the king pins/upper arm. K factory got fancy and cut out the center section so you have two thin pieces going the king ping ackerman connection. When hit theses two pieces bend and deform. The front portion is solid. I filled those two sections they cut out with JB weld. Anyone who has every worked with JB weld knows that two those two areas will not bend when hit now! This should keep your shock tower from deforming under normal hits. If you have one deformed now, straighted it out and get the ID on the shock tower sides exact then JB weld. You should be able to use that piece once again.

Team Magic will be coming with a plastic shock tower for the Hot Shot Bulkhead system soon. This will lower the cost and add the strength that is necessary. I hope in the future poduction of the alloy pieces they will not do the cut outs. I have already asked for this sometime ago.

Hope everyone had a great Thanksgiving!
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