Team Magic G4

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Old 08-03-2006, 12:12 AM
  #1621  
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Originally Posted by RayJ
Dennis devloped a new internal gear system for the G4S that some of us got a chance to run this past weekend at Toledo. It was a very definate improvement, and I picked up about .3 sec's per lap. I also ran the new Black clutch spring with all the weights in the flyweights, and dialed a ton of clutch in it. Dennis reworked a Kyosho UFO clutch bell and pinions. The motor just came to life, and the bottom end pulls waaay harder!! The first column of numbers is the standard drive numbers, and the second is the numbers for the improved internal drive. I also undertsand in afew months Team Magic will be offering a still lower internal drive. Some of the prototype stuff I saw was really really trick!!

Front Diff.Pulley 32 32
Inside Front Pulley 18 18
Outside Frt Pulley 27 26(option pulley)
Outside Rear Pulley 19 20
Brake Pulley 19 20
Rear Diff. Pulley 48 48
1st Speed Pinion 19 17(TM Kyosho UFO pinion)
2nd Speed Pinion 24 23(TM Kyosho UFO pinion)
1st Speed Spur 51 52
2nd Speed Spur 46 47
Fr. Tire Diameter 61 59
Rear Tire Diameter 62 62

1st Speed Final Gear Ratio 6.781 7.341
2nd Speed Final Gear Ratio 4.842 4.904
Ratio between 1st and 2nd Speed 40.05% 49.69%
Final Coeficient 2.526 2.400
Ratio between Front & Rear Tires 98.39% 98.82%

I have been using the 18t brake and side pulleys, 19t and 24t pinions and stock spurs. With 18t first and 23t second G4 pinions and 52 and 47 spurs you could go with even lower final ratios. Why not use the G4 specific parts and try the Kyosho parts instead? I do not understand. Would this have been too low? Are you after the smaller outside diameter of the Kyosho pinions?

Thanks!

Hugo
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Old 08-03-2006, 04:39 AM
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Hugo,
we want to slow the speed of the transmission and mainshaft down. if you use 18 the FDR is 2.80. if you can get to 20 the FDR is 2.40. what we are doing is slowing the mainshaft down so we have to gear the engine lower. The transmission is the heaviest rotating part of the car and it takes the most power to spin it up and down between gears which eats power. (inertia is the enemy) If we don't spin it up as high between gears its all free power that is not wasted spinning up excess rotating inertia. the difference between 2.80 and 2.40 is several thousand less rpm on the mainshaft between each acceleration and deceleration of the transmission.

However using 20's on the mainshaft with 18 as a first gear pinion will not allow you to gear low enough. (on stop and go USA type tracks, this is less of an issue on large sweeper tracks like europe has.) for 20's you really need to go 16 or 17 on first gear which you cant do on the G4s clutch bell as it is. However this can be done with a modified kyosho UFO bell and modified kyosho pinions.
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Old 08-05-2006, 03:07 AM
  #1623  
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Have I got this right?
19T pulleys and a 20T pinion
is the same as
20T pulleys and a 19T pinion
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Old 08-05-2006, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by NiMo
Have I got this right?
19T pulleys and a 20T pinion
is the same as
20T pulleys and a 19T pinion
I think No.

Would you consider to buy 20T brake pulley and 20T rear side pulley from K factory? I'm using them and very satisfied.

Last edited by asw7576; 08-05-2006 at 11:18 AM.
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Old 08-05-2006, 09:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Motorman
However using 20's on the mainshaft with 18 as a first gear pinion will not allow you to gear low enough. (on stop and go USA type tracks, this is less of an issue on large sweeper tracks like europe has.) for 20's you really need to go 16 or 17 on first gear which you cant do on the G4s clutch bell as it is. However this can be done with a modified kyosho UFO bell and modified kyosho pinions.
Thanks for the clarification.

Now, going back to the modified Kyosho UFO clutch,

What would I have to do? Mount the clutch bell with the gears on and lathe them down a bit so they mesh with the G4 spurs?

I have access to great machining capabilities so this would not be difficult. I am trying to understand what you did to the alternate parts.

Where can I buy the Kyosho UFO and gears?

Thanks!!
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Old 08-06-2006, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by asw7576
I think No.

Would you consider to buy 20T brake pulley and 20T rear side pulley from K factory? I'm using them and very satisfied.
I was looking at that as I can comfortably run a 20T pinion since I got this JP motor, hence why I asked if it were the same.
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Old 08-06-2006, 08:09 PM
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Been having problems lately with all our G4S 2nd gear spur keep stripping, anyone experiencing this problem? Thanks!
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Old 08-06-2006, 08:28 PM
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I haven't had any problems at all with stripping gears. Really haven't heard anything in this regard from my customers. You running the normal gear ratio's?
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Old 08-06-2006, 10:33 PM
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Yup we are running 19/51 24/46 ratios. Its just lately we are experiencing this problem. I will call Nick Ko about this, just needed to know if any of you had the same problem. Thanks!
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Old 08-06-2006, 11:22 PM
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Havent had any problems with stripping gears only hassle has been first gear pinion gets worn quickly,
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Old 08-07-2006, 03:13 AM
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I know someone that was having this problem with stripping second gear. Turns out he had the clutch set in such a way that the end bell would touch the second gear spur when it engaged; i.e.; there is too much end float in the bell. You could tell this was the problem by looking at the spur after a run and you could see that the gear had a very slight rounding of the teeth closest to the clutch bell.

Otherwise, what I did for a while when I couldn't get the gear mesh right was I would take off the first gear spur and set the gear mesh with the second gears instead of the first. Then when you drop the first gear back on it seems to mesh perfectly.

I guess be sure you are also using the S class gears in the right combinations. Second spur and 1st pinion must be S class. The second gear spur even has an 'S' in a circle as part of the moulding.

For your application, as long as second gear has the 'S' on it and you are running a blue first pinion and a silver second pinion in the ratio's you mentioned then everything should be fine.

I have also had the problem of the first gear pinion wearing quickly. It must be the extra grip the G4S has!!

Cheers,

Mike.
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Old 08-07-2006, 04:14 AM
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Originally Posted by XTREMERCHOBBIES
Been having problems lately with all our G4S 2nd gear spur keep stripping, anyone experiencing this problem? Thanks!
Add shims inside the clutchbell ( between clutch spring & first bearing ). Don't use shims after the thrust bearings.
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Old 08-07-2006, 06:43 AM
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I use shims after the thrust race without a problem.

The length of the shaft on your engine and the collet used are the main factors in determining where the shims need to be.
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Old 08-07-2006, 07:04 AM
  #1634  
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Congrats to Team Magic/Phenix Distribution at the 2006 Great Lakes Challenge:

200mm Sedan
Bobby Flack TQ (lost engine in warmup)
Brian Berry 2nd place A Main
Ray Juhl - B Main
Mark Unrath - B Main
Mark Rodney - D Main
Demetris Blount - C Main

Outlaw
Dave Berry - 10th place A main
Dennis Richey - 9th place A Main
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Old 08-07-2006, 07:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Z00M
I have also had the problem of the first gear pinion wearing quickly. It must be the extra grip the G4S has!!
Yes, the new pinion gears from K-Factory has much less lifetime but I think its also because lighter in weight while the older pinion lasts like forever. Hmmm must be the new marketing strategy LOL
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