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Old 10-31-2002, 07:24 PM   #46
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Default RS4 Set-up

1) Get rid of the HPI tires. They are junk for racing. See how shiny they are. The compound is just too hard for a race situation. The ##R series of Hpi tires work well in some circumstances, but I think you will be happier with another brand of tire.

Recomendations:

Pro-Line, S-3 (any) With HPI 26mm hard or soft inserts. These work GREAT on concrete.

Yokomo 138G's with HPI 24mm red inserts to start. 138G's also come in a GF and GH (firm, hard) series for warmer weather. Yokomo's work best on older coarser asphalt, like a street surface or unsealed parking lot. You can also use Yokomo inserts but I find HPI inserts allow the tires to wear btter with no loss in traction.

Team Sorex 24R, 28R, 32R, 36R & 40R. The higher the # the higher the track temperature. I have found that Sorex's will work well at a wider range of temperatures than what the manfacturer specifies. Sorex's work exceptionally well on SEALED/resealed asphalt that is smooth. HPI 24mm inserts also work well with these tires.

Take-Off tires in the CS27 to 32 compound are popular and though I haven't ran them yet (next weekend), many of the racers I've talked to like them and say they work on a variety of different surfaces.

Get some better tires FIRST. Then you can experiment with set-ups. Without the BEST tire for the track, you will be fighting a losing battle. I know, I've been there and done that.
If you still are unsure of what tire to try. Poll the other racers at the track where you race to get an idea of where to start.
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Old 10-31-2002, 10:28 PM   #47
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One thing about yokomos, I ran them down to the belts quite fast. My car was running very funny for one race, it kept hooking hard. i guess the belt underneath doesn't grip like the rubber on top of them!

The Team Orion 27's run at the onroad worlds had this problem, except for some, they wore down the tires in only one qualifier!
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Old 10-31-2002, 11:37 PM   #48
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Yeah,

I've talked to the guys down at the "track" most of them are running foam. I mean I don't have anything against running foam, it's just i've seen what happenes to them after a few time there used. They look worn down and big chunks taken out of them. I'd rather invest in something I can get more then 3 races out of. These a not like ROAR event where you race like two or three time and your done for the day, we race from 7:30pm-10:30pm. On average I will race 7 or 8 times in one night. These are not 5 min race, they 15 mins each, at a good pace I can get about 30-34 laps in. It gets better the last race of the night is a "Last Man Standing" Match. On a good day 15-20 car in an all out battle to see who will run out of gas last. That ends up ing about 30-90mins. Most of the guy at the track are in the next day buying new sets of foams @ 21.95pr. thats why i think it would be a better investment to have temp specific slicks to run on the track.......

What do you think???

ROB
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Old 10-31-2002, 11:58 PM   #49
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Old 11-01-2002, 02:30 AM   #50
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If you want your tires to last that long, then rubber slicks will give you better traction while still lasting a longer time than foams. A smooth driving technique will let your tires last longer, so don't go doing spinouts and weird stuff. Sorex tires seem to last a long time. But they do lose the grip that they have when they are fresh. So for practice use old tires. For that "last man standing" thing, use old tires. For the real racing, use your newest set of tires. If you want tires that will last forever, then I suggest Team losi yellow compound slicks. One racer used them every other weekend for six months and it was still good (the rubber at least). They have less grip than tires like Sorex and Proline and Yokomo, but they are much better than treaded tires.
Also, start with good medium inserts, don't be tempted to use soft inserts even though your tack doesn't seem to have much traction.

And good luck.
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Old 11-03-2002, 12:48 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fiream
This is after racing, and don't say i get hit alot cause no matter what i get hit of not it looks like this.....
What's happening is that you are stripping your ball cups. When the ball cups are new, the turnbuckles fit inside really tight. When you hit or get bumped hard, the turnbuckle gets pushed into the ball cup. You think, I'll just pop yhe ball cup off the ball, back it out and pop it back on. It seems to be good as new, but the inside of the ball end is now stripped. Now, at the slightest bump, the turnbuckle gets pushed back in.

Your best bet is to get a good set of TI turnbuckles and a set of RPM ball cups. The replacement tierods are almost twice as thick as the stock ones and the RPM ends won't strip or pop off unless you REALLY wack somthing hard. If you just want to race and don't have the money, use the solid camber links that came with your kit. They set the rear to -1 degrees camber. That should be pretty close to perfect for most parking lot racing.
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Old 11-03-2002, 01:11 AM   #52
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Default Tires, tires, tires

What kind of surface do you race on. I'm assuming that the overall tracktion is good if people can run foams. I replied earlier about what tires work good on what surfaces. Obviously there are other choices, but these have worked very well for me.

I can usually get 4-6 weekends of racing on a set of rubber tires with the correct compound and insert. If you are racing these long heats and mains, then go up one step in insert firmness than what you would normally use for a 5 min. race.
This will help your tires last longer.
I like the HPI inserts for just about everything because they have 5 different hardnesses (is hardnesses a real word?) while everyone else has only 2 or 3.

As for your set-up, I would run (0) zero toe in the front on a HPI car, with -0.5 to -1 degree negative camber in the back. Put your camber link in the middle hole on the rear bearing carrier.
Adust for 0.0 to -0.5 degree camber in the front and use the stock camber link location in the front. Use any more camber in the front or back and you will lose grip at that end of the car. HPI set-up is a little different than other cars. I have raced HPI nitro cars for over 3 years. Try it and you will see what I mean.
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Old 11-03-2002, 02:47 PM   #53
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Default Rubber tires should last

Rubber tires should last AT LEAST (1) total hour of racing. I usually get 4-6 weeks of weekend racing out of most of mine. If you're getting less, then maybe a compound or insert change is in order. Too soft of a tire or insert can wear out in 1 heat. Unless you get your stuff for free (I do not) then a balance of traction and wear is required.
Once you pick the brand and compound of tire, start with a medium insert and adjust based on wear and traction from there.

Also the Team Orion tires that wore out in one heat, were the wrong compound (too soft) for the track conditions (this is from feedback of some of the racers at the event).
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Old 11-03-2002, 05:44 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fiream
Im2lazy,
If i get on the gas even alittle it will try to kickout. I'm running about -1.5 camber in the rear. I was think, what if I get a set of wider tires for the rear?? It work on real cars.....


Rob
The rear comes out when powering out of a corner, Typical RS4 behavior.
1)The single most effective thing you can do is put some diff oil in the rear differential. 50k wt should do it.Spend the $8 and do it.

2)Your camber should be about negative 1/2 degree on all 4 corners.
3)Normally when lacking traction the first thing you can look at is droop. But that is not the RS4 problem unless you played with the down stop settings from the factory. Generally speaking RS4's need diff work, and Shock oil & springs, Use softer springs and oil in the rear. If you run at a track that is bumpy--- set your ride height a little higher than normal, say 5.5 mm/front & 6.5mm/rear. Even 6mm/7mm.

4)I've had good traction with HPI Advans tires, 24mm, Blue HPI 24mm inserts. 33R in the summer and 27R in cooler weather.

5)Ofnas K-1 slicks have been good for me too, with HPI 26mm red inserts.
6) [this is real cheessy] If your track doesnt measure car width-- get the Ofna Hyper Rims, they will make your car wider. They have more off set than normal, Put the K-1s on Hyper rims.

7)Running foams means a stiffer shock oil and spring set up, & another 1/2 degree of negative camber.
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Old 11-03-2002, 06:45 PM   #55
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I guess I've got something to think about what I want to run. I guess it's tuff getting a setup on the track. Got to remember this is not a preped track, it's cleared of stone and debree, no sugar water or anything is put down...All this is, is a track blocked off by pvc pipe in a bumpy parkinglot in front of a hobby store.......


Rob
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Old 11-04-2002, 12:56 AM   #56
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Yokomo also has wheels with real wide offsets. if you get the ten spokes, then your car will be like 8 mm wider than with tires that are of regular offset.

Camber, set it to your track so that your tires wear evenly. also, someone said that this car likes all of the corners to have the same camber, and that is totally true b/c the car was designed to be this way.

in my diff, 5000 was the best at the rear; 50,000 would have caused my diff to act too much like a solid differential, very bad at my track. the looser the rear diff is, the more traction it will have, the stiffer, the rear will have less traction (generally). On a wide open track with plenty of sweepers, harden the rear diff, if your track is a bunch of 2x4's crammed together, a looser rear diff is better. Don't go with the oils made for off road buggies though. Don't use 3000 and 1000 weight diff oils ever, you will achieve the opposite effect of using thinner rear diff oil. And it is always better to start with harder rear diff oil, b/c you'll be fastest when your car has just enough grip to be consistent. If you can't control the car, then use lighter rear diff oil. But on an RS4, I still say grease is the easiest.

Do one change at a time as well.
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Old 11-04-2002, 10:40 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally posted by Im2lazy

Do one change at a time as well.
I forgot this. Absolutly the best advice.

Fiream: Last year i ran at a lot that had a lot of small dips etc. I set up my Racer 2 high: 6mm/f 7mm/rear. Your rear swings out when you power out of a turn---
1) Get some tires. If it was me-- unprepped surface. Try Hpi Advans, 24mm, green 24mm inserts. If its under 65 degrees-- get the 27 R. otherwise the 33R.
2) Shock oil-- Do you have the stock oil? If so go ahead & put 50wt in the front.
3) If you have the stock springs, get softer springs for the rear.
4) Diff oil in the rear, is good thing.That by itself made my Racer 2 well behaved.

I'm guessing that you will end up with 50wt/f 40/rear or 60/40, maybe 50/50-- oil in the shocks. And if you dont have one, get a camber gauge. I have the RPM-- $10.

I've gotten my Racer 2 to behave decently. So I'm familiar with the Rs4 & the direction guys need to go to get it to behave decently. Anything you learn on the RS4 will translate to you rnext car. If you can get an RS4 to handle well, you can get any car to handle, LOL.
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Old 11-04-2002, 10:54 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally posted by Im2lazy
in my diff, 5000 was the best at the rear; 50,000 would have caused my diff to act too much like a solid differential, very bad at my track.
Do one change at a time as well.
Ummm, Generaly good advice, but the RS4 tends to roll in a turn -lifting the inside rear tire, this causes the rear to slide out. See above. Yes you lose diff action (some) but you also wont unload the inside rear tire. I think HPI makes a spring set for the HPI diffs, but I have no experience with them. Also put diff oil in both diffs If you have a strong engine put the heavier oil in the rear:
50k in front, 100k in rear. If you have under a horse-- 100k front ,50k rear. These weights are an example, 10k & 30k would work too. Seal the diff case with Permatex hi temp RTV from the auto parts store.
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Old 11-04-2002, 11:58 AM   #59
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Default Diff Oil

I don't recommend silicone oil in the HPI diffs. Even with the optional O-rings inside it will leak it out in a short time. Try to find some diff grease.
Don't go too thick at either end or the car will be loose at that end. (the front will push and the rear will slide out) The front should have about twice the resistance when you turn the wheels by hand. I think Ofna has diff grease availible in different weights.
I've always used Dow Corning silicone grease with good results.

Also try puting a drop or 2 of some kind of lubricant on your outdrives and axles where the dogbones ride. This will GREATLY extend the life of your outdrives/axles by months instead of weeks.

With good tires you should be able to run RED HPI #6835 springs in the rear and BLACK (stock kit) or GREEN #6837 springs in the front. This will allow less roll and more corner speed.
Try the set-up I suggested in a earlier post. It has worked good for me and the other HPI owners that I know.
Download the HPI spring chart from their website if you hav'nt already.

Last edited by popsracer; 11-04-2002 at 12:22 PM.
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Old 11-04-2002, 12:20 PM   #60
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Default The object of the game is..

To have a balanced chassis set-up. HPI cars tend to be tail happy (loose in the rear) so you want to induce a little understeer, but just a little. Try to stay no more than 2 steps away from each other when you choose your shock springs and oil. 60w/40w, Green/Red.
Even on a loose track you may find that a GREEN/RED spring combo will work better than a YELLOW/WHITE as the inside tire will lift with the softer set-up.
Setting chassis droop through the shocks/downstops can also benefit the handling of your car.

An HPI can be made to handle well enough to spank alot of other cars in a parking lot race. I did it for several years. But they are alot less forgiving in terms of set-up compared to most of the other cars on the market. You can EASILY spend more than the cost of a new car in hop-ups for the HPI. Try not to get caught up in the hop-up game. Race with what you have now (with better tires/set-up) and when the car can take you no futher, just buy another car. I know all of this because I've been down both paths.

Have fun racing.
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