Traction roll
#1
Traction roll
Hi guys, we're racing at a new track with exceptional high traction. Most guys running the 200mm touring class are having problems with their cars that traction roll. We have made changes to the setups to make the suspension hard and raised the roll centers, but are still having traction roll problems.
Can you suggest setup changes that will have the biggest effect in reducing the traction roll problem.
Can you suggest setup changes that will have the biggest effect in reducing the traction roll problem.
#2
Tech Champion
iTrader: (8)
Hi guys, we're racing at a new track with exceptional high traction. Most guys running the 200mm touring class are having problems with their cars that traction roll. We have made changes to the setups to make the suspension hard and raised the roll centers, but are still having traction roll problems.
Can you suggest setup changes that will have the biggest effect in reducing the traction roll problem.
Can you suggest setup changes that will have the biggest effect in reducing the traction roll problem.
#3
I have seen that the guys at the worlds added weights to their front bumpers as well
#4
Tech Initiate
What type of track surface- carpet or asphalt?
Like nitro dude stated - soften the front (for better steering) but I would have the rear stiffer than the front (to lessen the rear traction). This way the rear will drift around turns and with some tire glue on the front tread outer edges it should push a little more in the front. I would keep the center of gravity lower. Maybe try 3mm offset wheels to get a wider stance with 200mm body and try small camber adjustment. When making changes, do them one at a time to see cause and effect. Doing it all at once won't clue you in as to what really made a difference.
Like nitro dude stated - soften the front (for better steering) but I would have the rear stiffer than the front (to lessen the rear traction). This way the rear will drift around turns and with some tire glue on the front tread outer edges it should push a little more in the front. I would keep the center of gravity lower. Maybe try 3mm offset wheels to get a wider stance with 200mm body and try small camber adjustment. When making changes, do them one at a time to see cause and effect. Doing it all at once won't clue you in as to what really made a difference.
#5
Regards
BM
BM
Last edited by British Menace; 05-16-2015 at 11:52 AM.
#6
Tech Addict
iTrader: (1)
Traction roll is reduced by increasing the roll sensitivity of the car, so you're doing this by making the car softer in terms of roll bar stiffness, sprining and dampening.
You want to retain the front to rear roll couple (balance) of the car, so make the front and rear equally softer, lowering the roll centre to allow more leverage on the CoG may even be advantageous in this situation when you'd think it would be counter productive, this will allow the weight to be transferred into the suspension, rather than the car tipping over.
You're going to lose responsiveness, going for this kind of setup and you will need to slow down all your driving inputs to get the car to feel like it's responding correctly, but this is the best way to combat traction roll.
Adding weight to the front at the worlds was done to prevent the car "hooking" around the corner and then flipping over because the front end was biting into the corner too hard.
You want to retain the front to rear roll couple (balance) of the car, so make the front and rear equally softer, lowering the roll centre to allow more leverage on the CoG may even be advantageous in this situation when you'd think it would be counter productive, this will allow the weight to be transferred into the suspension, rather than the car tipping over.
You're going to lose responsiveness, going for this kind of setup and you will need to slow down all your driving inputs to get the car to feel like it's responding correctly, but this is the best way to combat traction roll.
Adding weight to the front at the worlds was done to prevent the car "hooking" around the corner and then flipping over because the front end was biting into the corner too hard.
#7
Use a durometer and check the shore of your tyres is what you think they are too.
I don't know if you use additive or not but after time it can soften the tire up much more than some think it can.
I don't know if you use additive or not but after time it can soften the tire up much more than some think it can.
#8
It is also important to understand which end of the car starts to roll first. I've found that 200mm IC Touring cars tend to roll over at the front on corner entry. At the worlds on the 748 we had to put alot of weight on the front bumper as well as reduce front caster to pretty much zero.
#9
Thanks for the feedback guys. I will try some of them.
#10
Tech Elite
iTrader: (28)
Lower your rear lower hinge pins
Make the suspension softer (as others have suggested) even to the point of disconnecting the sway bars (especially the front bar)
Make the tires smaller. You can keep your "normal" ride height but the lower side walls will not flex and "fold under". The super glue method helps with this as well but I just don't like using super glue as I feel that will make it easier to chunk the side walls.
The smaller tires I have found will always eventuallly cure the problem but if the track wears tires quickly, then you traded one problem for a different problem.
Make the suspension softer (as others have suggested) even to the point of disconnecting the sway bars (especially the front bar)
Make the tires smaller. You can keep your "normal" ride height but the lower side walls will not flex and "fold under". The super glue method helps with this as well but I just don't like using super glue as I feel that will make it easier to chunk the side walls.
The smaller tires I have found will always eventuallly cure the problem but if the track wears tires quickly, then you traded one problem for a different problem.
#11
Regards
BM
BM
Last edited by British Menace; 05-16-2015 at 11:54 AM.
#12
Tech Champion
iTrader: (8)
You can spew all the science you want, I guess it makes you look smart, but it wont help him deal with the traction rolling. Science may be right, but out there on the track all we can do is make adjustments. All the posters contributed things that can be done to counteract or ease traction rolling, and it all comes from experience.
ProE, something else to do is dont round off the outside corners of the tires when you true them, leave them sharp.
ProE, something else to do is dont round off the outside corners of the tires when you true them, leave them sharp.
#13
You can spew all the science you want, I guess it makes you look smart, but it wont help him deal with the traction rolling. Science may be right, but out there on the track all we can do is make adjustments. All the posters contributed things that can be done to counteract or ease traction rolling, and it all comes from experience.
ProE, something else to do is dont round off the outside corners of the tires when you true them, leave them sharp.
ProE, something else to do is dont round off the outside corners of the tires when you true them, leave them sharp.
Regards
BM
Last edited by British Menace; 05-16-2015 at 12:05 PM.
#14
Change to harder tires.... the front tires are even harder.
Dont screw up your car setting yet.... change tires first.
Dont screw up your car setting yet.... change tires first.