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Old 08-27-2005, 12:50 AM   #31
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Thank you guys so much for the valuable inputs....really learnt a lot

Will follow your advice to go find some experts here... which would be difficult tho as i have to use the public transport

BTW, is there anywhere i can read up on the science on the glow plugs? from the os site, i can only understand that cold plugs are for hot/humid atmospheres while hot are more for cold atmospheres? <-- whatever that means

but im trying to find out how its use affects the engine/fuel combo... higher nitro content needs hotter plugs? or is it the other way around?
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Old 08-27-2005, 07:42 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragon
BTW, is there anywhere i can read up on the science on the glow plugs? from the os site, i can only understand that cold plugs are for hot/humid atmospheres while hot are more for cold atmospheres? <-- whatever that means
Here are a couple of articles regarding glowplugs.
From what I've learned so far, for .12 engines, hot plugs are the most suitable when running 16 % nitro fuel.

http://www.mytsn.com/publ/publ.asp?pid=8538&ccid=8
http://www.clive.pcresource.co.uk/wombwell/10th%20car%20info.htm

The website of the second link is currently being updated, that was a well written article as well regarding glowplugs. Check that website sooner or later.
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Old 08-27-2005, 12:08 PM   #33
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IF using Novarossi Plugs, C = Caliente means HOT
F = Frio means Cold


PLUG NOVA ROSSI FEATURES NITRO % INCREASOUTSIDE TYPE TURBO PLUG OF THE TURBO PLUG
PERFOMANCe AIR TEMP

HOT C.5TC HOT WITH HOT ELEMENT 10-20 % 10% 41 deg-50 deg F
" C " C.6TC HOT WITH MED. ELEMENT 10-20% 8% 41 deg-68 deg F
COALS C.7TC HOT WITH COLD ELEMENT 20-30 % 6% more than 68 F
C.8TC HOT WITH VERY COLD ELEMENT 20-30% 5% more than 68 F


COLD C.5TF COLD WITH HOT ELEMENT 20-30% 15% 50 68
deg F
" F " C.6TF COLD WITH MED. ELEMENT 20-30% 13% more than 68 F
FREEZING C.7TF COLD WITH COLD ELEMENT > 20% 12% more than 68 F
C.8TF COLD WITH VERY COLD ELEMENT >20% 10% more than 86 F


I have to files that describe everything in detail if you would like me to E-mail them to you, then Private Message me !!!

Scott
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Old 08-27-2005, 12:18 PM   #34
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Hey guys, i just found out that there is such a thing as a turbo pipe for a turbo engine!?!?

Im am using the Shark 5.2mm pipe... is that a problem??
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Old 08-27-2005, 01:33 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragon
Hey guys, i just found out that there is such a thing as a turbo pipe for a turbo engine!?!?

Im am using the Shark 5.2mm pipe... is that a problem??
Ok Dragon here goes,

First of all, clutch setup is an area that everyone seems to have somewhat of a problem with, however, when you finally get something that works, stick with it and only minor adjustments will assist in the future.

Engine tuning, after awhile, really isnt that hard, in basic terms, if you car starts and runs then you have already complied with half of the battle!!!!

You must remember that seasons, weather, altitude, etc... have alot to do with most of your tuning issues. Additionally, Clutch, Pipe, Header, Fuel %, and everything else comes with experience and talk amongst fellow racers.

Nothing comes easy, however, most of the questions you have asked lately, makes it appear that you have a limited knowledge base in you race area , therefore, most of us will help as well as we can with the information available.

I hope the glow plug info I sent you helps, but all in all, the best thing to do is take some time, and figure out some things for yourself after a period of time.

I think we all understand, that what works for the Pro's, the Experts, etc.... will not necessarily work for you. Everyones driving style is a little bit different, But the main thing to remember is that there is alot of info out there on the internet, and little by littley you will start adding the peices together to improve your car.

Scott
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Old 08-27-2005, 01:39 PM   #36
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Most likely not. (a pipe issue) After reading throught the thread MY advice as well would be to go to your local shop and seek assistance. If possible the shop you purchaced the engine at, seeing as how they would be most willing to assist you in getting it running. (another good reason to support your local shops.)
One thing I noticed right away in your picture is how short the fuel tubing is. Not likely to be the problem but 10 inches or around 25 cm depending on where you are from, is a good length. That will help dampen out the exhaust pulses therby stabalizing the fuel pressure. You need to make darn sure the starter box is turning the right way. Some engines will start and run backwards. turn the clutch bell the direction that makes the car go forward and then make sure the TOP of the starter wheel is turning the same direction as the BOTTOM of the flywheel. When positioned on the box, the flywheel and starter wheel actually turn opposite directions. Even if you have a plug that isn't ideal for your coditions most engines will still run OK, just not at peak performance. Another thing you may want to check is the age of your fuel, I didn't notice that mentioned yet.

GOOD LUCK! Let us know how it turns out.
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Old 08-27-2005, 01:43 PM   #37
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By the way a picture of the carb and the needles may help in spotting a problem, You may have a midrange needle that you are turning and needs to not be turned until you have a good feel for what it does!
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Old 08-27-2005, 10:16 PM   #38
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Hey guys guess what...

I changed the glow plug from cold P8 to med P7... and it WORKS!!! although it is somewhat opposite from what i understand from reading about glow plugs from the sources u guys provided me... IT WORKS!! IT MOVES!!!

IM SO HAPPY.....

I would like to thank:
Artificial-I for recommending me to play with the needles (where i learnt a lot on how it works)

Edwards for helping me understand the engine, and what a turbo plug is.. and for making my heart drop when he said I have already done damage to my engine..

Mie3R for first bringing up the plug issue..

Slotmachine

pme for making me dismentle my carb..

ntc3freak

vortex

Qlone

Jea3

Duneland who made me happy again when he said that engines running backwards happens every now and then... and the TRUE meaning of bogg.. and a better idea how to tune the engine...

terry sturchio

aaalp who provided me some good info on plugs..

JABRONI whose files were super informative and useful

and finally Daurie who assured me that theres nothing wrong wif the pipe i use

I LOVE U ALL....
U guys sure make this my most fravouite site on the net

.... IM SO HAPPY
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Old 08-27-2005, 10:21 PM   #39
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glad u got the engine working.this is what this forum is for.helping each other solving problem.have fun with ur car and engine.cheers
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Old 08-27-2005, 10:26 PM   #40
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Hope to share what JABRONI sent me... found it super useful...
Attached Files
File Type: doc Glow Plug Tips.doc (63.5 KB, 378 views)
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Old 09-05-2005, 02:14 PM   #41
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Hey guys, the problem seem to be comming back again...

I noticed that i need to lean the lower end quite a bit to keep the engine running and to keep it from cutting out when i pull the trigger... which causes the engine's temp to be around 130-150 degrees c... not good?

something i did wrong again? or is this normal?
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Old 09-05-2005, 02:43 PM   #42
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C or F?
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Old 09-05-2005, 07:12 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edwards
C or F?
I found very useful Jabroni's recopilation of articles on Glow Plugs, but I would like to share my findings about them, which take into account the most important thing about choosing between "C" or "F" bodied turbo glow plugs, which is HUMIDITY

Turbo Glow Plugs where designed to give more performance to an engine, for the following reasons:

1.-It forms an uninterrupted combustion chamber.
2.-The advantage of better heat transfer or heat dissipation, and a leak proof seal, generated by the conical seat of the plug.
3.-Greater choice of thermal ranges, that allow for more precise tuning according to variations in weather conditions (temperature, humidity, altitude, barometric pressure, etc.).

The numbers and characters on the plugs, are the product number, wire thickness, and thermal range of the plugs body. Example: The Novarossi C6TG (F) or (C)
Product: C (Candele)
Wire Thickness: 6
Plug Type: T (Turbo)
Plated: G (Gold)
Thermal Range: F (Fredda = Cold) C (Calda = Hot)

The plugs with cold thermal range F (Fredda), have a body with thinner walls and shorter body, so they dissipate heat better and faster to the engine head.

How to select the proper plug:
1.-When the ambient temperature is high, we have to use a plug with thicker wire.
2.-With higher compression, we have to use a plug with thicker wire.
3.-Humidity determines if we use a Cold (F) thermal range, or Hot (C) thermal range.
4.-With high humidity percentage we should use a Hot (C) thermal range plug.
5.-If we have high temperature and high humidity, we should use a plug with thick wire and a Hot(C) thermal range.

The best instrument to determine which Turbo Plug to use, is those table digital weather stations, that have Temperature, Humidity, and some also Barometric Pressure on them. That is the key to success or failure tuning engines with Turbo Glow Plugs, because they are so sensitive to weather variations that is unbelievable.

Following is a selection chart for Novarossi Turbo Glow Plugs

Type Thermal Range Nitro% Temp.C Temp. F Humidity%
C5TGC Hot/hot wire 10-20 0-10 32-50 70-100
C6TGC Hot/average wire 10-20 10-16 50-61 70-100
C7TGC Hot/cold wire 20-30 16-25 61-77 70-100
C8TGC Hot/ultra cold wire 30-up 25-up 77-up 70-100
C5TGF Cold/hot wire 10-20 0-10 32-50 40-70
C6TGF Cold/average wire 10-20 10-15 50-61 40-70
C7TGF Cold/cold wire 20-30 16-25 61-77 40-70
C8TGF Cold/ultra cold wire30-up 25-up 77-up 40-70


AFM
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Old 09-05-2005, 10:14 PM   #44
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Wow, AFM, that makes it so much more understandable!... u should write your own artitle...

so my problem has a higher chance that it is still the plug problem? i changed from P8 cold to P7 med previously.
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Old 09-06-2005, 10:17 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragon
Hey guys, the problem seem to be comming back again...

I noticed that i need to lean the lower end quite a bit to keep the engine running and to keep it from cutting out when i pull the trigger... which causes the engine's temp to be around 130-150 degrees c... not good?

something i did wrong again? or is this normal?
Did you try to richen the HSN when temp went up to 130-150 C ? If not, try that. Because if the car is running good when leaning the lower end but temp is high, I would try richening the HSN so that more fuel gets to the engine and cools it down. BTW what fuel are u using?
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