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Old 09-12-2005, 07:10 PM   #676
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R40 Victim,

1st question...do you currently race 1/8?

2nd...why would you attack someones english? Have you ever thought that it isnt their 1st language? This alone shows a lack of respect for other people on the forum..

Suggestions are being made because peoples opinons differ on this topic. I guess an opinion is OK so long at its yours ...so much for an open forum

Look long and hard at other suggestions people are making. The one common ground I see is that a spec motor class hasn't been succesful yet...Hasn't is the key word.

Its a free forum and there WILL be people who's opinons differ from yours.

John
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Old 09-12-2005, 08:17 PM   #677
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I have to agree with R40 and his comments on the reason/need for a SPEC/Stock/whatever division. I read these boards about the 1/8 scale racers and sometimes it appears that they just want to see how much money can be spent.

Making a product available to the masses does not cheapen it, it helps it grow. Do I run 1/8 scale now? No. Why? Because I was not willing to pay that much to see if I liked the sport. Look at the 1/10 scale as a template. Most companies (even the vaunted Mugen and Kyosho) offer 1/10 RTR version, as well as 1/10 scale full-blown racers. What is the reasoning for this? Give the people something good, with a vast compliment of parts/hop-ups and make it affordable. And then when the driver wants to move up, brand loyalty hopefully keep them with your brand.

Why will this not work in 1/8 scale? Why is the only 1/8 scale RTR that I am aware of is buy Power Racing Products? (They shoe-horned a .27 in their so if you want to race you need to buy a new motor?)

As for a new class for 1/8 scale (I will not call it SPEC since folks seem to get real sensitive about that), I'm going to wager a bet it will introduce more folks to the sport. I would be first in line for it. Heck, I would help organize the class in Virginia.
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Old 09-12-2005, 08:22 PM   #678
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R40Victim
I bet the prices would drop if they saw a dramatic decrease in sales of those $600+ motors... I don't think teching all the motors before the race is really needed. How bout just tech the guy who seems to be breaking the laws of physics for that motor... If somebody seems to be Leaving the Pack down the straight section, then people will probably notice, something's up.

One thing I don't understand, why people are so opposed to the idea. If you're not interested in the class, great, shut up. We need suggestions to make it happen, not verbal diahrea in broken english(no offense, it's just difficult to understand) about how you don't want to slow down. We've stated and restated it's not about speed, it's about $$$!!! That's what keeps most guys from trying it out. You just cannot justify to some newb that he needs almost 2 grand to get in on the action...
Dude I understand your frustration but put yourself in their shoes and imagine how frustrating it would be trying to express exactly what you mean in your second language. I suppose they could just shut up and not say anything but we and the thread will all be the poorer for it.
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Old 09-12-2005, 09:08 PM   #679
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Guys, first of all you really got me wrong. I don't have anything against SPEC class, more then that, I am for it.
Second point is, that since this new class might be popular, I wan to know what kind of restriction can be apply to engine. The reason is that-I want to make engines which will fit to any rulls applyed for this class. There is posability to make very powerfull motors within defined specs at reasonble price. But how can I start to design something, if everybody ( including future organizers of those races) just talking about $300 limit price and no hand modding allowed. It should be defined some specs (exhuast timing, induction timing, trnsfer timing, bore on cranck, ventury size-something!!!) So when specs will be defined or some idea will be giving-it will be much easier to make something good.
One more thing, forget about my English-people who wants to understand me-they do easy!!! if you read signature under my avatar-it says-Rusian from California.
Edward
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Old 09-13-2005, 07:47 AM   #680
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Top Gun 777
Guys, first of all you really got me wrong. I don't have anything against SPEC class, more then that, I am for it.
Second point is, that since this new class might be popular, I wan to know what kind of restriction can be apply to engine. The reason is that-I want to make engines which will fit to any rulls applyed for this class. There is posability to make very powerfull motors within defined specs at reasonble price. But how can I start to design something, if everybody ( including future organizers of those races) just talking about $300 limit price and no hand modding allowed. It should be defined some specs (exhuast timing, induction timing, trnsfer timing, bore on cranck, ventury size-something!!!) So when specs will be defined or some idea will be giving-it will be much easier to make something good.
One more thing, forget about my English-people who wants to understand me-they do easy!!! if you read signature under my avatar-it says-Rusian from California.
Edward
Top Gun: not sure what you mean about starting to design something??? Are you planning to build an engine from the ground-up??? If YES, I can see your point about wanting the guidlines for building an engine...However, the basic guildlines for a 21 engine are available today...check the ROAR website for details (ie: displacement, exhaust height, etc....) These are the same guildines used by all the top engine producers to build engines...Also, keep in mind a new engine needs to accepted by sanctioning boards and racers which is a very expensive process.

If your looking for the detials relating to the engine for the class we are proposing, my questions is WHY??? We made the guidlines as simple as possible for engines readily available....

1.) 5 port (off-road engines permitted)
2.) non-modified cranks
3.) turbo plugs permitted
4.) $300 retail cap

Any modifications you do to an engine to gain in performance beyond the stock manufacturing is breaking the guidlines and cheating...why bother signing up for a SPEC class, just race in the open class and you never have to worry about whether or not your modifications are permitted...

I think what we are talking about is someone who perhaps has access to a machine shop...There are a number of guys in my area who are machinist and are always tinkering with engines, chassis etc....and that's fine....so long any modified engines are raced in the open class.

For example lets say that an RB 5port off-road engine has 25 degrees of timing and the OS 5port off-road has 20 degrees....the guy with the OS is not permitted to modifiy the crankshaft to get 25 degrees of timing....Hence the reason, NO MODIFIED CRANKS...besides, the cost to do such modifications would put you over the retail cap.
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Old 09-13-2005, 07:49 AM   #681
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Also, your english is a lot better than my Russian
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Old 09-13-2005, 07:51 AM   #682
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffreylin
I pulled the trigger...a 1/8th chassis is on its way...
I hope you still keep the TRF415
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Old 09-13-2005, 09:19 AM   #683
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Giordano
If your looking for the detials relating to the engine for the class we are proposing, my questions is WHY??? We made the guidlines as simple as possible for engines readily available....

1.) 5 port (off-road engines permitted)
2.) non-modified cranks
3.) turbo plugs permitted
4.) $300 retail cap

Any modifications you do to an engine to gain in performance beyond the stock manufacturing is breaking the guidlines and cheating...why bother signing up for a SPEC class, just race in the open class and you never have to worry about whether or not your modifications are permitted...

I think what we are talking about is someone who perhaps has access to a machine shop...There are a number of guys in my area who are machinist and are always tinkering with engines, chassis etc....and that's fine....so long any modified engines are raced in the open class.

For example lets say that an RB 5port off-road engine has 25 degrees of timing and the OS 5port off-road has 20 degrees....the guy with the OS is not permitted to modifiy the crankshaft to get 25 degrees of timing....Hence the reason, NO MODIFIED CRANKS...besides, the cost to do such modifications would put you over the retail cap.
Hi Carl.
Yes exactly- I am looking for particular specs on SPEC class.
Just to use your example, RB off road has 25 degree exhaust and OS has 20, so nobody is permited to raise exhaust on OS, but can I produce engine with 35 degree exhaust port-it is not going to be dremeled-it will be made by that specs? It is no difference in manufacturing to make 20-25-30 etc degree of exhaust so it will be no additional cost-but it will be advanced compare to other readily available engines. About the cranck, let's say average cranck for off-road engine induction is open at 40 ABDC and close at 55 ATDC. Most of modification is done to bring these numbers to better set up to increase power and make power band on desirable way. Now, modding is not pernited, but again if I will make SPEC engine can I initialy design engine with advanced induction? It will not change the price if it is initialy made as designed.
BTW, please check Palmaris racing engine tread in Exclusive nitro zone forum. This is what we are. We make p/l sets, crancks, head buttons etc for existing brands, we produced .12 engine PS12 and now we are on final line to introduce new PR12 engine. We did inveted new technology in Nitro engine history-Bi-metal sleeve construction.
I see that SPEC class has future, so I want to be able to offer to racers our products.
Edward
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Old 09-13-2005, 09:20 AM   #684
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Giordano
I hope you still keep the TRF415
TRF415 was long gone. I have a Evo4 left for now but I haven't run electric in the last 8 months. Luckily in LA you can run nitro all year long.
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Old 09-13-2005, 09:29 AM   #685
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffreylin
I pulled the trigger...a 1/8th chassis is on its way...
Great !!!

I see you finally decided on a 1:8th scale car Jeff.
And I hope you chose the right one.?.?.?.?.?.?.?
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Old 09-13-2005, 09:32 AM   #686
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Quote:
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Great !!!

I see you finally decided on a 1:8th scale car Jeff.
And I hope you chose the right one.?.?.?.?.?.?.?

Which one would that be?
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Old 09-13-2005, 09:41 AM   #687
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Originally Posted by YBSLOW
Which one would that be?
I'd like to make a guess but I'll wait to see what he decided on.
The last time I heard from him, he said he was still confused...
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Old 09-13-2005, 09:45 AM   #688
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron C.
I'd like to make a guess but I'll wait to see what he decided on.
The last time I heard from him, he said he was still confused...
I wanted to know what the "right" one would be.
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Old 09-13-2005, 09:50 AM   #689
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Originally Posted by YBSLOW
I wanted to know what the "right" one would be.
Whatever he decides on getting, I guess.

Just like anybody, whatever they think would be "right" for them. There are a few to pick from as you know. And I know he was also considering parts availability, durability, etc. (the usual).
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Old 09-13-2005, 09:55 AM   #690
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R40 Victim,

1st question...do you currently race 1/8?

Yes

2nd...why would you attack someones english? Have you ever thought that it isnt their 1st language? This alone shows a lack of respect for other people on the forum..

I got a little frustrated, sue me

Suggestions are being made because peoples opinons differ on this topic. I guess an opinion is OK so long at its yours ...so much for an open forum

Yup, lets burn it

Look long and hard at other suggestions people are making. The one common ground I see is that a spec motor class hasn't been succesful yet...Hasn't is the key word.

Right, and we're working towards it, lots of opinions/concerns to voice. The theory behind this is lower costs=more racers, and vise versa

Its a free forum and there WILL be people who's opinons differ from yours.

Master of the obvious are we, cool....

Look, the reason I jumped on him is because of his remarks. It's as if he didn't read the whole post. The broken english was difficult to understand, and sometimes it's not that English is a second language, they just have poor typing skills. There's no indication of where he's from, so how would I know. He's already PM'd me, so we'll settle anything "Personal" that way. Now, back on topic...

"Dude I understand your frustration but put yourself in their shoes and imagine how frustrating it would be trying to express exactly what you mean in your second language. I suppose they could just shut up and not say anything but we and the thread will all be the poorer for it."

I shot him down because of his comments, not the way he said it. I made the broken english comment not knowing where he's from, somebody shoot me...
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