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Old 09-10-2005, 11:08 AM   #616
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffreylin
Business class ticket to Italy = $7000-$8000
One week of car rental = $400
One week of hotel room = $1500
5 Engines = $3000
2 Chassis = $1200
Spare Parts = $300
Eating, drinking and having a good time = $1000

Taking out the TQ car in the first corner = priceless
A kit only cost you around $600
Beat me and let you happy for a month = priceless
don't hesitate Jeff! Just click "BUY IT NOW" button. Can't easy more!
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Old 09-10-2005, 11:09 AM   #617
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Originally Posted by dino.tw
Jeff~Jeff~~wake up! Jeff!
After saw the worlds result,let us know your choice? evolva? mrx? 960?
just do it jeff! don't hesitate!gogogo~~~
I will take one of the cars you are offering!

That was an incredible race. I am going have to order the DVD.
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Old 09-10-2005, 11:14 AM   #618
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That was an incredible race. I am going have to order the DVD.
As usual DVD will come out 1~2 months later. Order a 1/8 chassis first,buddy!
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Old 09-10-2005, 05:15 PM   #619
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I saw the flyer at Crystal Park today and they will be running SPEC class if enough people show up on the 18th of September. New track layout and new class. Should be fun.
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Old 09-11-2005, 04:30 AM   #620
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Hi All

Firstly I cannot see how anyone would want to reduce the spectacle of the premier classof on-road nitro racing.

Some of the suggestions I have seen would result in the 1/0th gas replacing 1/8th as the premier class!

No suggestion which would result in slowing the cars down should carry any weight.

Reducing the cost has to be separated from the performance.

I feel that the we can learn a lot from the Karting community which never seems to struggle to attract
huge numbers of competitors.(especially in europe and the uk)

Right now Serpent have about 16+ different models for sale.
Is this acceptable in a sport which has essentially 3 classes? - (not sure about other makes)

My proposed solution is to have a homologation period for cars.

I would suggest about 3 years.

The cars specifications would be approved and then any
improvements (hop-ups) they wanted (or needed) to make would have to be made available free of charge to owners.
This would stop the cars being rushed to market(sometimes under-developed or crippled with cheap parts)
with a list of optional(a lot are essential) upgrade bits which can quickly double the cost of the initial chassis.

Their behaviour is not dissimilar to that of drug dealers.

The chassis are easy to scrutineer as well.

I would adress the horsepower issue a bit differently however.

This would be by fistly increasing the qualifying heats to 5.5 to 6 minutes.
Most mid priced motors can achieve this and it would have a negligible effect on the speed.
But it will reduce your fuel bill a bit and the wear and tear a lot.

The second place to control the horsepower race is with track design.

I always try to design a track with the following points.

75% throttle sweeper into the main straight- so good setup and driving will give you a good run into the straight.

Main straight no longer than about 60m

Really slow and nasty hairpin type corner at the end of the straight which leads into an important sequence
of on-throttle chicanes gradually increasing in speed to reward good driving and setup. (no squirt and coast)

This ensures that the faster motors just get to brake sooner at the end of the straight and if they mess up the braking
they have to build the speed back in a section where huge power is not an advantage.

Real kerbs which you cannot drive over.

All of the above would not apply to World championship events which would remain the manufacturers playground
where they could display and refine the equipment which they want to palm off on us paying customers.

When everyone in the club has bought the newest offering the previous status quo is returned
except that everyone is a shiteload poorer.

The new stuff is only an advantage if only you have it! Otherwise it is still up to preparation, setup optimisation and
driving skill. (the rest is plain old motorsport luck)

Most competitors seem happy to part with money as if they were serving the manufacturer community and not them serving us.

Lets allow the cream to rise to the top naturally and stop trying to push it up with money.
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Old 09-11-2005, 09:52 AM   #621
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I dont think your ideas would work. Homologation for 3 years, theres companies that, weather we like it or not, depend on a 1 model a year concept. We may all hate the fact that they come out with a new model every year, but thats the only way for them to survive. RC companies are not hugh corporations with billions of cutomers all over the world like real car companies. At this time IMO the problem is not the price of the kit, 1/8th kits prices have been going down the last few years, in fact, TC kits have been going up.

IMO the biggest expense is the engine. It seems that Novarossi (mainly) just keeps hiking up the prices. Sure, the engines keep getting faster, and more fragile, but the technologie is the same, so the price increase is simply because we keep paying it. AS far as mod motors, thats one of the reasons for the SPEC class idea.

The tracks should remain the way they are, penalizing them beacause ABC engine companie wants to charge a gazzilion dollars for their engine is the wrong thing to do. We dont need tracks going out of bussines because we made them change the layout, we need them to stay in business. Besides, the allure of 1/8th IS the big track with big sweepers and long straights.

If we allow the cream of the companies to rise naturally, once they get to the top they will start to make us pay even more. We need more companies making good products, this way we can have more products to choose from at lower prices. We have to creat competition between the companies to keep prices down, perhaps not down, but at an acceptable level.

Look at foam tires. A few years ago, before TCs started racing with foams, a set of foam tires for 1/8th was about $50-$60, you can get a set for $30 if you look areound and do your homework. More classes racing on foams created more demand and in turn the prices went down.

I see people on this tread complain that a Spec class will thin the heats on the other classe more that they are now. The whole idea of the spec class we have been talking about is to allow the driver who wants to get into the class do it at a lower initial cost. He may later buy that expensive engine and run the full blown class, but he didnt have that hugh initial cost that intimidates everyone.

If this Spec class idea takes off and more tracks around the country ( or the world) start using it, it may get big enough that we start hurting the pocket books of the engine manufactures and the prices of the more expensive engines might have to come down, or people wont buy them. Its like gasoline, if there's less demand they bring the price down. If we create less demand for the mega buck engines they may bring down the prices.

OOOF!! Never thought I would type such a long post, sorry.
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Old 09-11-2005, 01:42 PM   #622
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nitrodude
IMO the biggest expense is the engine. It seems that Novarossi (mainly) just keeps hiking up the prices. Sure, the engines keep getting faster, and more fragile, but the technologie is the same, so the price increase is simply because we keep paying it. AS far as mod motors, thats one of the reasons for the SPEC class idea.

The tracks should remain the way they are, penalizing them beacause ABC engine companie wants to charge a gazzilion dollars for their engine is the wrong thing to do. We dont need tracks going out of bussines because we made them change the layout, we need them to stay in business. Besides, the allure of 1/8th IS the big track with big sweepers and long straights.

If we allow the cream of the companies to rise naturally, once they get to the top they will start to make us pay even more. We need more companies making good products, this way we can have more products to choose from at lower prices. We have to creat competition between the companies to keep prices down, perhaps not down, but at an acceptable level.
Sorry,mate. I don't think so.

Always you can see a question here "uh...which engine is the best?" again and again. Then you can get a lot of feedback about how a mod engine is so fast! fantastic! amazing...like that. No one talking about tyre is more important than a mod engine. Good maintain is more important. Setting a centax clutch to perfect sometime is much more important than just a powerful engine. Chassis is much more important than enging...etc.

No one think about it may be a newbie so maybe a smooth engine is more good to him. People like to push other people to buy the same stuff that they have. uhm....I have a xxx engine,if yours is not the same,it must be a crap!....or....oh~xxx has a new model,it must be better then the old model....(who sold their M8 and plan to buy M11 say "Yes!" um,I plan to do so...hehe... ) Never see people talking about a well banlance between chassis and power is the winning key. Who care? When people start to find that the sport is out of their budget,they just quit. That is why R/C folk become less and less.

Manufactory will only sell what more people like to buy to consumers. When They find more people will only buy the top level engine or each year new model,if you are the boss what you will do?

Who let us in bog? manufactories? ourself?

oops...talk too much! sorry! sorry!
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Old 09-11-2005, 02:52 PM   #623
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This is not really the thread to post this so let me start by appologizing!! I am planning on attending a 1/8 race next summer (kind of thread related...I find the class to be the most enjoyable, and It is gaining popularity here in Edmonton, Canada!!) and was wondering which race is the biggest and best in the U.S.. Any information would be appreciated. Please pm me. I have been thinking about the GLC in Toledo or the Winter Nat.s in Kissime (sp?). Thanks for the help.
John.
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Old 09-11-2005, 02:56 PM   #624
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Giordano
So keep-em coming

So we moved to a port limitation with a non-modified crank, as it would be easy to monitor....in addition, so not to add unnessary cost to the racers, turbo plugs are permitted
Hey Carl, how you can control a non-modified cranck. Will you put some numbers for timing or what? I am just interesting. Will you permite non famouse brand crancks on your race? I can make any cranck with any specs and it will look like non-moded machied at factory, not dremeled, but in the mean time it will be "full moded" thing.
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Old 09-11-2005, 03:31 PM   #625
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Sorry! Limiting engine is not a good idea in my opinion.
Maybe a guy already spend $700 to buy a mod engine then you ask him to spend $300 to buy another engine? It's cruel! And it is very trouble to check all engines. You will never real know what they can do.
For example,Ed can modify engine. If he change the piston material to 32% Si ,no one will know. Then his engine will be faster then stock one. Then people start to PM Ed "Hello,how much is it?" (just for example )

I would like to suggest that : One club race one set of tyres.
For example,$50 entry fee for a club race and give you one set of approved tyres. It may be 40 degree and you have to run it from the start to the final. The tyres must be durable and limited traction. All racers have the same traction. Then people will find more power = more trouble and useless. It is more easy to achieve in my opinion.

Last edited by dino.tw; 09-11-2005 at 05:41 PM.
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Old 09-11-2005, 08:03 PM   #626
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Dino is right!!!!
Limiting engine is not an answer to increase popularity. Put stock engine basecaly will not do anything. There is stock Novarossi 21 Plus3, stock JP FX 21, stock MEGA, stock L.Collary etc. Everything which comercialy available can be easy concidering as stock. So how can be determinated which one is really stock.
Another thing is, as Dino mentioned, if some guys already have fast motor and to attend that race, racers will need to spend more money to get one more, non really competitive, engine-I doubt anybody will do it.
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Old 09-11-2005, 09:37 PM   #627
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Guys, Dino and Ed, you have to read the whole tread. A stock engine has been described as a 5 port .21 under $300 retail. Theres a lot of off-road engines that fir the criteria.
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Old 09-11-2005, 10:58 PM   #628
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The stock engine rule sounds simple, the real problem is in the enforcement. From the out look, there is no way tell which engine is a true "stock" engine or not.

How much time is needed to check the crank, sleeve, piston, (conrod, crank case ...) for an experienced crew to make sure it is a real stock parts (for only one engine) ? Who is willing to rip out the engine from chassis, then dis-assemble the engine to enforce the rule ? Are you willing your engine to be dis-assemble by other guy who want to take as little time to do the job as possible (in a rush) ? And who is gonna to put together the engine together again ? I don't think it is a fun job.

Besides, don't forget the human aspect. Why you need to dis-assemble my engine and not his ? You don't trust me ? (WTF) I am a guy who look like I will cheat ? (Sh..) My engine neever runs as good as it before the tech inspection! They seems to got my engine damaged. Wow, that guy is really fast in the straight, there must be some "secret" inside. ......

Last edited by Wolf; 09-11-2005 at 11:15 PM.
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Old 09-11-2005, 11:12 PM   #629
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf
The stock engine rule sounds simple, the real problem is in the enforcement. From the out look, there is no way tell which engine is a true "stock" engine or not.

How much time is needed to check the crank, sleeve and piston, (etc) for an experienced crew to make sure it is a real stock parts (for only one engine) ? Who is willing to rip out the engine from chassis, then dis-assemble the engine to enforce the rule ? Are you willing your engine to be dis-assemble by other guy who want to take as little time to do the job as possible (in a rush) ? And who is gonna to put together the engine together again ? I don't think it is a fun job.

Besides, don't forget the human aspect. Why you need to dis-assemble my engine and not his ? You don't trust me ? (WTF) I am a guy who look like I will cheat ? (Sh..) My engine sleeve is stratch after the tech inspection! ...
I like all your points. I cann see all that happening.
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Old 09-11-2005, 11:15 PM   #630
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With this type(spec engine) of racing comes a certain expectation of honesty and integrity. If you have to cheat...you should be in another hobby or you should look in the mirror and ask why. I know it's alot more complicated than that but honestly guys......we are talking about club racing here.....not the Nats....Regionals..or Worlds!! If you don't like it DON"T RUN THIS CLASS!!!!! If it fails then it will al be back to where it was before it started.....with low turnouts in Southern California!!!!
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